RIGHT .... no difference if it a short field less 43 at the start or on Lap 30 after the SnP teams ~ Park ...

come come Pond ... Nationwide team owner Jay Robinson who moving up to CUP .

.. had a Daytona 500 WINNER !! driving his NW car last year ... Derrike Cope ;-) ...

we can Only hope that Jay gets either Amber or Angela the Cope twins to Start n Park or Drive ;-)

QUOTE(#2):

Originally posted 06:03 PM ET  01.16 by FL0AT:TheTroof!

Happy Monday Everyone!

Checking in!

NOT a Happy Monday in the land of the CheeseHead ... ;-(

... after the PACK checked Out...

QUOTE(#4):

Originally posted 06:16 PM ET  01.16 by ... Nova

come come Pond ... Nationwide team owner Jay Robinson who moving up to CUP ... had a Daytona 500 WINNER !! driving his NW car last year ... Derrike Cope ;-) ...we can Only hope that Jay gets either Amber or Angela the Cope twins to Start n Park or Drive ;-)

Derrick cope is one of those celebrities who's 15 minutes of fame becomes their legal name. Have you ever heard the words derrick cope Without it including Daytona 500 winner?

Kinda like Mikey W.

Not that far from Joey L.

QUOTE(#5):

Originally posted 06:18 PM ET  01.16 by ... Nova

NOT a Happy Monday in the land of the CheeseHead ... ;-(... after the PACK checked Out...

I am now rootimg for whoever is playing the patriots

I see the Giants and Pats playing for all the marbles. GO GIANTS

Go New York Knickerbockers! They are going to win the big cup on the ice this year! Although how they get ice skates on horses I'll never understand.

Hope you are right. Hate those Bruins.

Ya know......I think if you're a legitimate NW team owner, you're almost crazy NOT to have at least a Start and Park Sprint Cup team. Think about it....you've already got the basics of a team there (pit crew, crew chiefs, equipment, hauler, etc.) for all the tracks which host NW and Sprint Cup on the same weekend. You'll have to spend some more money to invest in at least 1 Sprint car, but then just cash in when you pull into the pits on lap 20.

QUOTE(#9):

Originally posted 10:36 PM ET  01.16 by JKINDELRAY

I see the Giants and Pats playing for all the marbles. GO GIANTS

i like to see the Two brother / coaches go at it 49'ers vs Ravens

QUOTE(#12):

Originally posted 01:51 PM ET  01.17 by Grizzly Fattums

Ya know......I think if you're a legitimate NW team owner, you're almost crazy NOT to have at least a Start and Park Sprint Cup team. Think about it....you've already got the basics of a team there (pit crew, crew chiefs, equipment, hauler, etc.) for all the tracks which host NW and Sprint Cup on the same weekend. You'll have to spend some more money to invest in at least 1 Sprint car, but then just cash in when you pull into the pits on lap 20.

Hence the need to put in a rule

QUOTE(#13):

Originally posted 03:36 PM ET  01.17 by ... Nova

i like to see the Two brother / coaches go at it 49'ers vs Ravens

Now colts have dumped the head coach too.

QUOTE(#14):

Originally posted 03:50 PM ET  01.17 by pondscum

Hence the need to put in a rule

Oh I completely agree there needs to be a change. The start and park is an embarrassment to the sport. I'd rather see a field of 35 legitimate cars than what we have now. Determining who is making an "honest" effort might be more trouble than it's worth though. A NW team owner can show up with all the appearances of a legit team (tools, team, tires) and still shut down after a few laps.

Maybe make a minimum number of laps required to claim the prize money or base their winnings on percent of laps completed? Teams can be allowed 5 DNF's or mulligans per season (where they could S&P if they wanted). After that, if you run 25% of the laps, you get 25% of whatever the prize money is for your spot. 50% of laps, 50% of prize money, and so on.

QUOTE(#16):

Originally posted 11:26 PM ET  01.17 by Grizzly Fattums

Oh I completely agree there needs to be a change. The start and park is an embarrassment to the sport. I'd rather see a field of 35 legitimate cars than what we have now. Determining who is making an "honest" effort might be more trouble than it's worth though. A NW team owner can show up with all the appearances of a legit team (tools, team, tires) and still shut down after a few laps.Maybe make a minimum number of laps required to claim the prize money or base their winnings on percent of laps completed? Teams can be allowed 5 DNF's or mulligans per season (where they could S&P if they wanted). After that, if you run 25% of the laps, you get 25% of whatever the prize money is for your spot. 50% of laps, 50% of prize money, and so on.

We're on the same page. It's hard to seoerate the real vibration or elextical problem form the phantom. I propose that a tangible measurement first be implemented, that that have bought enough tires to complete the race, enough fuel, and a full pit crew. Some of these guys show up on race day with only the tires they qualified with, and no crew, then withdraw for "electrical problems"

QUOTE(#17):

Originally posted 05:57 AM ET  01.18 by pondscum

We're on the same page. It's hard to seoerate the real vibration or elextical problem form the phantom. I propose that a tangible measurement first be implemented, that that have bought enough tires to complete the race, enough fuel, and a full pit crew. Some of these guys show up on race day with only the tires they qualified with, and no crew, then withdraw for "electrical problems"

Or take it a step further, and have the teams define and prove the "electrical" problem, or the "vibration", etc. Everyone blows an engine now and then, or gets wrecked, but I don't see the top teams falling out of a race because of a "vibration".

The only problem I see with mulligan idea is that potentially hurts the real teams who compete for wins and actually run the race. Clint Bowyer and Jamie McMurray both had more than 5 DNFs so should they have been penalized? And if so how? And do DNS's count toward the mulligan?

QUOTE(#18):

Originally posted 01:10 PM ET  01.18 by Raistwalker

Or take it a step further, and have the teams define and prove the "electrical" problem, or the "vibration", etc. Everyone blows an engine now and then, or gets wrecked, but I don't see the top teams falling out of a race because of a "vibration".The only problem I see with mulligan idea is that potentially hurts the real teams who compete for wins and actually run the race. Clint Bowyer and Jamie McMurray both had more than 5 DNFs so should they have been penalized? And if so how? And do DNS's count toward the mulligan?

I didn't bother to go see how many of the actual regulars had more than 5 DNF's...I just picked 5 out of the air. I also thought that perhaps you can make 90% of the laps the magic number (you get 100% of the money at 90% of the laps of that race) since you'll have races where cars might finish a few laps down.

I didn't want to get into having the teams prove their electrical problems or vibrations, or whatever. Nascar would have to conduct more inspections (which means the teams AND Nascar would have to pay more employees), there'd be more appeals, it would be a drain on teams that legitimately have problems, etc. I also wouldn't count a DNS as a DNF. Not starting a race or qualifying wouldn't count against you.

The problem I have with start and park is the effect the have on the points when a front runner has an early incident. Instead of finishing with 43rd place points, they typically end up 34th or so