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Grizzly Fattums
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Scenedaily posted an article today about Nascar re-evaluating its "Boys Have at It" policy.  (Scenedaily has been absolutely loaded with great articles during the offseason by the way).  Anyway, thoughts on the situation?  Was it time to re-evaluate?  Should there be new lines drawn, and what would they be?  Can they ever actually draw absolute lines for this?

 Here's a copy of the article....

CHARLOTTE - NASCAR officials plan to re-evaluate its "boys have at it" policy going into the 2012 season and could strengthen its stance against drivers retaliating on the track.

NASCAR loosened the reins on drivers in 2010, allowing them to police themselves on the track and retaliate when they believed another driver had intentionally wrecked them.

The incidents intensified in 2011, and NASCAR officials acknowledged that things might have gotten out of hand near the end of the season.

"We reflect on that at the end of the year and the season hasn't started yet, but there are some things that a group of us will sit down and talk about, and that is one of them," NASCAR Vice President of Competition Robin Pemberton said Thursday.

"There were times that it got out of hand, and we're going to discuss what out of hand really is moving forward."

NASCAR officials came down hard on Kyle Busch in November for retaliating against Ron Hornaday Jr. in a truck series race at Texas. Busch turned Hornaday into the wall under caution after the two had a run-in under green.

Busch, who had been on probation earlier in the year and was involved in a yearlong feud with Kevin Harvick and his teams, was parked during the race at Texas and suspended for the Nationwide and Sprint Cup races that weekend.

Pemberton said Busch's actions crossed the line for two reasons: he wrecked Hornaday under caution; and he hooked him in the right rear bumper, sending Hornaday's truck nose-first into the wall.

"It's the type of retaliation that you want to look at," Pemberton said. "That happened under caution, that's one thing. Green-flag retaliation is another thing. Each case is different enough that we have got to sit down and get our heads around it as a group.

"The one thing that sticks in people's mind is hooking a guy in the right rear. Giving a guy a bumper shot and doing different things, there are differences in that. But the thing that becomes more clear to those of us who are discussing these matters, when you hook a guy in the right rear, that's something that needs to get looked at."

Busch was involved in several incidents of retaliation last year, most involving Harvick or Harvick-affiliated drivers after the two tangled at Darlington in May.

But he wasn't the only one. Brian Vickers retaliated against Tony Stewart at Infineon Raceway in June and against Matt Kenseth in back-to-back races at Martinsville and Phoenix near the end of the season.

Juan Pablo Montoya, Kurt Busch and even five-time Cup champion Jimmie Johnson also were involved in acts of retaliation.

Pemberton said he doesn't believe the trend of retaliation in general got out of hand, although specific incidents may have crossed the line.

"You have these one-off spontaneous things that happen," he said. "It's what happens inside the cockpit when a driver gets enraged and loses control, and quite honestly, it only happens a few times.

"You have to remember, there are thousands and thousands of miles of racing with a lot of competitors in all of our national series, and we only get in the headlines a few times for these things."

Pemberton pointed out that there is a big difference between retaliating at a short track like half-mile Martinsville and at a 1.5-mile, high-speed track like Texas.

"You're under caution at Martinsville and you're running 35 mph and at Texas you're at the end of the straightaway at 170 mph," Pemberton said. "The intent of doing something may be the same, but the results and the lack of understanding of your surroundings and what happens aren't always right."

Pemberton, who coined the phrase "boys have at it" in 2010, believes NASCAR's original position of allowing drivers to police themselves still works.

"It's working pretty well. It goes in stages," he said. "It works pretty well, then somebody gets outside the box and everybody gets the message and it goes back to working pretty well. But we can't take all of that for granted."

 

January 26, 2012  10:28 PM ET

The Powers To Be Of Nascar will solve this. LOL They always get things right. LOL They operate like a well oiled machine.

January 27, 2012  06:06 AM ET

This is almost as bad as the Presidental debates.

January 27, 2012  07:22 AM ET

IF I WERE RUNNING THE SHOW( obviously I am no):

'Boys have at it" would allow on track, For Position, rough and tumble racing, including bump and run, blocking, and any other offensive or defensive tactic used to either acquire or defend a position.

ANY retaliatory actions, during yellow flag or pit row time, or actions by participants not currently contesting a position will be dealt with by an immediate two lap penalty, up to a black flag for the remainder of the current race and ALL points related to the current race. No exceptions.

This will hopefully supress actions like, cousin Karl, getting his wreck rolling with the sole intention of retaliation on keselowski.

The forfeture of all point a for the race eliminates the effect of the start and Parker's on points.

January 27, 2012  07:23 AM ET

IF I WERE RUNNING THE SHOW( obviously I am no):

'Boys have at it" would allow on track, For Position, rough and tumble racing, including bump and run, blocking, and any other offensive or defensive tactic used to either acquire or defend a position.

ANY retaliatory actions, during yellow flag or pit row time, or actions by participants not currently contesting a position will be dealt with by an immediate two lap penalty, up to a black flag for the remainder of the current race and ALL points related to the current race. No exceptions.

This will hopefully supress actions like, cousin Karl, getting his wreck rolling with the sole intention of retaliation on keselowski.

The forfeture of all point a for the race eliminates the effect of the start and Parker's on points.

January 27, 2012  07:24 AM ET

Sorry for the dupe.. stupid little spinning clock?......

January 27, 2012  07:25 AM ET

Good morning, for all you still working, happy Friday!

January 27, 2012  09:01 AM ET

I have to agree that some drivers got a little too out of control late last year with the Boys Have At It. But part of that is NASCAR's fault for not putting some type of limit to what the drivers could and couldn't do.

Obviously NASCAR doesn't want the drivers to be wrecking one another under caution, so you make that Rule #1. Then add to the list from there. And make the consequences for crossing the line clear, similar to what Pond said in his double posts. Knowing NASCAR it wouldn't be that exactly, but have consequences and make sure each driver understands how it is going to be.

And stick with it! If KB can wreck someone and get a slap on the wrist at most, yet Kevin Harvick does the same or similar and gets fined points and money, that just makes the fans question the competency of NASCAR even more. NASCAR is already stepping in the right direction by eliminating the secret fines.

January 27, 2012  09:01 AM ET

JK - There was also a good article about Kyle this week at scenedaily.com about his approach this year and having to change some of the things he does. Additionally, there was an article about Harvick (where he was whining and already trying to pick a fight before the year started), and an article where JJ and Gordon talked about both Busch brothers being good for the sport.

Here's the link to the Kyle article
http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sprintcupseries/Kyle_Busch_says_he _cant_keep_same_Rowdy_image_and_remain_employed.html

January 27, 2012  09:10 AM ET

Morning all; nice morning in the South. I check scenedaily every now and then along with a few other decent sites. It depends on how much fool around time I have. Thanks, Grizzly I am off to take a look over there now.

January 27, 2012  09:11 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

IF I WERE RUNNING THE SHOW( obviously I am no):'Boys have at it" would allow on track, For Position, rough and tumble racing, including bump and run, blocking, and any other offensive or defensive tactic used to either acquire or defend a position.ANY retaliatory actions, during yellow flag or pit row time, or actions by participants not currently contesting a position will be dealt with by an immediate two lap penalty, up to a black flag for the remainder of the current race and ALL points related to the current race. No exceptions.This will hopefully supress actions like, cousin Karl, getting his wreck rolling with the sole intention of retaliation on keselowski.The forfeture of all point a for the race eliminates the effect of the start and Parker's on points.

I nominate Pond for President........... of Nacsr. I do expect a cabinet post.

January 27, 2012  09:51 AM ET

Joseph Mattioli, the founder and chairman of Pocono Raceway, has died following a lengthy illness, NASCAR officials announced Thursday during a preseason news conference at the NASCAR Hall of Fame. He was 86.

How long before things change there. This is the only family owned track in Nascar. The grandsons have owned it and managed for a year or two, the changes are coming.

January 27, 2012  10:11 AM ET
QUOTE(#11):

Joseph Mattioli, the founder and chairman of Pocono Raceway, has died following a lengthy illness, NASCAR officials announced Thursday during a preseason news conference at the NASCAR Hall of Fame. He was 86.

How long before things change there. This is the only family owned track in Nascar. The grandsons have owned it and managed for a year or two, the changes are coming.

Thoughts and prayers to the Mattioli family.

Pocono is gone from the schedule in 2013, with dates going to Las Vegas, and Chicago.

January 27, 2012  12:24 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

Thoughts and prayers to the Mattioli family.Pocono is gone from the schedule in 2013, with dates going to Las Vegas, and Chicago.

Is that a fact?

January 27, 2012  12:52 PM ET

you know : Pocono Raceway will repave the track before the start of the 2012 racing season. Supposedly work has already begun on removing asphalt.

this was reported back in October ...

January 27, 2012  01:07 PM ET
QUOTE(#13):

Is that a fact?

No that was more a response to JK's How long before change question. That is just what I pulled out of my head.

With the safety issues at the track, and the fact it isn't France/Smith owned it just makes sense. Bruton Smith wants a second date for Vegas, even more now that they lost the Indy race for the foreseeable future. And I can't see NASCAR giving SMI a race and forsaking one of their own tracks, which right now Chicago is the only ISC oval track without a second date.

Plus the bonus would be two more 1.5 mile races to the schedule because everyone LOVES them!

January 27, 2012  01:10 PM ET
QUOTE(#8):

JK - There was also a good article about Kyle this week at scenedaily.com about his approach this year and having to change some of the things he does. Additionally, there was an article about Harvick (where he was whining and already trying to pick a fight before the year started), and an article where JJ and Gordon talked about both Busch brothers being good for the sport. Here's the link to the Kyle articlehttp://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sprintcupseries/Kyle_Busch_ says_he _cant_keep_same_Rowdy_image_and_remain_employed.html

That dalmation has said he as changing his spots before. Wait and see, here

January 27, 2012  01:11 PM ET
QUOTE(#11):

Joseph Mattioli, the founder and chairman of Pocono Raceway, has died following a lengthy illness, NASCAR officials announced Thursday during a preseason news conference at the NASCAR Hall of Fame. He was 86.How long before things change there. This is the only family owned track in Nascar. The grandsons have owned it and managed for a year or two, the changes are coming.

Who owns Indy?

January 27, 2012  01:11 PM ET
QUOTE(#15):

which right now Chicago is the only ISC oval track without a second date.

Correction: Homestead also only has 1 race, but Chicago is the larger market.

January 27, 2012  01:17 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

Who owns Indy?

Hulman and Co. a company that is in the food and beverage industry purchased the track in 1945.

Dover is the third track NASCAR Cup runs at that is not owned by International Speedway Corporation (NASCAR) or Speedway Motorsports Incorporated (Bruton Smith). But Dover is owned by Dover Motorsports who also built the concrete Nashville track which is now up for sale.

 
January 27, 2012  02:03 PM ET
QUOTE(#19):

Hulman and Co. a company that is in the food and beverage industry purchased the track in 1945.Dover is the third track NASCAR Cup runs at that is not owned by International Speedway Corporation (NASCAR) or Speedway Motorsports Incorporated (Bruton Smith). But Dover is owned by Dover Motorsports who also built the concrete Nashville track which is now up for sale.

Thats what I thought, so its a fine line. Hulman and company is family owned, but the track is owned by the corporation, that is family owned.

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