FanNation - The Republic of Sport

I completely agree. Allen should be gone, no doubt. As you said, you can't win games with that talent level on offense and it all happened on Allen's watch.

However as a loyal Browns fan (insert joke here), I was already irked by our owner, Randy Lerner's man-crush hire of Eric Mangini. Now we're taking counter offers from "6th choice" GM candidates.....now to "put the cherry on the sunday", the Bucs fire a capable coach who would have attracted GM candidates in Cleveland rather than chasing them back to their old jobs....it's going to be another long, long year in Cleveland.....

I would have to agree that it was time for Gruden to go. I liked him as a coach but he does have a say in the talent and he obviously was not doing the right things with his talent to get it done. They do need more talent but they SHOULD have been in the playoffs in a weak NFC. 3rd in defensive rating and 9th in offensive rating in the NFC. Garcia has proven that he can still play.. not as good as he was but he is by no means lame. Simms.. he was a joke as it was. Bucs as a team completed 63% of its passes (355 of 562) which put them 6th in attempts and 7th in completions in the NFL. He has no real receiver core to throw to and the O line is mediocre at best but he got the job done. Gruden called the shots from the sidelines rather than let his veteran QB lead. Either way here are some stats to chew on:

YPG Stats:

Tampa Bay finished 14th in the league in offense.. out of 32 that is not bad... not great but not bad.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=team&sort=ypg&pos=of f&league=nfl&year=2008&season=2

Tampa bay was 9th in Defense... pretty good but expected from Gruden
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?sort=ypg&stat=team&pos=de f&league=nfl&season=2&year=2008

PPG:

Bucs finished just ahead of Pittsburgh who is still in the playoffs
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=team&sort=ppg&pos=of f&league=nfl&season=2&year=2008

They finished 9th on defensive PPG ( top 3 are Pitt, Philly, and Balt )
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?sort=ypg&stat=team&pos=de f&league=nfl&season=2&year=2008

YPG

they finished 4th behind Pitt, Philly, and balt on defense and 11th on offense

what does this say... the talent is there to be competative but Gruden could not get it done.

Garcia was and still is by far better than B Johnson when he won the SB in 2003 with the Bucs and the ONLY reason the Bucs won was because of their defense which Gruden is known for. Problem with that is that defenses more times than not will not win the SB. You have to have some kind of offense that can score which he had this season. The down side is that Gruden has never been an offensive coach and has to control everything he can and that can hurt the team. Since that SB win the bucs have missed the palyoffs 4 of the 6 years and made quick exists in the other 2. Gruden in Oak couldn't get it done there. Anyway... bottom line is that Gruden has talent on that team and is competitive but he cannot utilize what he has to get over the hump and that is is what kills him. Glaser is right in changing coaches.

As far as Allen goes... good riddence. Long time coming.

What you guys are missing is that the Bucs are not in a very good position personnel-wise for next year. Unless certain older players have an unexpected rebirth next year, there will be serious holes on the team. QB, WR, DE, DT, LB, DB.

Ronde Barber is declining, despite the hero worship heaped on him by the media. Every play the Bucs gave up over 40 yards, he was materially involved in, slipping, or missing the tackle. Brooks had a weak year the prior year, came on strong at the beginning of this year, then sputtered badly with injuries late in the year. Kevin Carter slowed as the season wore on, and when the two starting DTs were out, the Bucs D could not stop anybody from running at will. If we cannot resign Bryant at WR, the position is a total wash. Garcia cannot stay healthy all year with his kamikaze running and Brian Griese is about as mobile as a frozen pine tree. Which leave us with Luke McCown who shows much talent but little brains.

Gruden and Allen are a team. They built this mess. Short of having a miraculous draft and free agency period, this team was doomed to repeat the same pattern next year, start strong and die at the end. When you look at what happened in Oakland after they left, it was very similar to what has started in Tampa. After going to the Super Bowl against the Bucs, the Raiders fell apart.

As for Gruden being known for defense, I have no idea what you are talking about. He was always allegedly an "offensive guru", though nobody in Tampa will back that assertion up, unless just considering him offensive in nature. Guys, this is a good day in Tampa. Today has restored my faith in the future of the Bucs and humanity in general.

Gruden is a finisher. San Diego should've bought him out of Tampa when they fired Schottenheimer. The Chargers were made to order for the Super Bowl in '07 and Gruden would've sealed the deal. His best fit now is Dallas (move over, Jerry) or the Jets.

WELL WHERE DO I START, HOW ABOUT HERE GRUDEN WAS BROUGHT IN TO JUMP START A WEAK OFFENSE HE WAS AN OFFENSIVE GENIUS I'M STILL WAITING. HE WAS A QB GURU WHAT HAPPENED? GURDEN AND ALLEN PICKED THE TALENT ON OFFENSE AND THE TALENT THEY CAME UP WITH WAS BRYANT AND THAT'S AFTER 7 YRS, THE SUPERBOWL WAS LUCK TONY COULD HAVE WON THAT GAME GRUDEN'S CONTRIBUTION CAME BECAUSE HE KNEW THE RAIDERS PLAYERS SO WELL, FACE THE RAIDERS WAS A STUPID TEAM COULDN'T CHANGE THEIR TENDENCIES. JON DID HAVE FIRE AND PASSION BUT THAT WEARS THIN AFTER AWHILE, EXCEPT FOR THE O LINE THEY DRAFTED POORLY U DON'T THEY KNEW HOW TO EVALUATE TALENT VERY WELL, HE MAY HAVE OUT WORKED EVERY OTHER COACH BUT HE COULD NOT EVAUATE TALENT.