FanNation - The Republic of Sport

I can appreciate the middle-ness. I understand the man vs. animal argument, humans should be on top, right? But humans as a general in choice and action do some freakin' f'd up **** to EVERYTHING. My argument in the whole matter is that it's not putting humans over animals, it's about putting a stop to the accepted social norm of dog fighting. High profile or bo-dunk country..it doesn't matter. If taking their stuff will curb it then let it be. We can't stop killings and we can only do so much to humans for human atrocities. We can't predict them either. Murders killing and such. We can go after sex rings, pedo-rings, etc. with just as much vengeance. Why because those victims can't fend for themselves. It's something we don't want next door or in the community. We sure as hell (God I hope not) let it be a slap on the wrist in prosports. It's something we can go after and try to prevent. Same as dog fighting. It's not putting animals over humans at all.
I have a pit...I also used to live in a neighborhood where dogs ran free and we had to carry a stick to keep from getting our **** bit off, I even had a dogs teeth break off in my leg (8 stitches), do I hate them? No...well little dogs I'm not a fan but if they were being used in Chihuahua fighting rings I'd do the same for them as I do for pits..maybe. Personally, dogfighting in my book is WRONG and unacceptable. I take it personnally. No gray area or teetering. Fund it, bet on it, observe it, host it..KNOW ABOUT IT and do nothing. You all can sit together on the firing line. And call me Nancy Reagan but it's a pig tail to a whole venue of unacceptable behaviors.

good points man. Just to be clear, I think dog fighting is wrong and should be illegal and stopped and all that stuff. I just think most of the outrage stems from pple's love of dogs in general. You're a better man than I if you can get attacked and still love dogs.

or maybe you're a woman, sorry. you get what I was trying to say.

No vedderisbetter,I don't think we as black people want to be able to do whatever we want to but we just want to make sure Michael Vick gets a fair trial.So many black men are in jail to this day for crimes they did not committ.Let''s stop making the personal attacks by calling Michael Vick
a thug,I've read on this site where people call him a Ghetto Thug,Do you personally know this man or are you one of many people that form opinions of a person based on what the media says.Do you even know what a thug is,probably not,talk about ignorant!!

Thug - An aggressive and violent young criminal (websterdict)
Thug - a ruffian, a miscreant, petty criminal or person who behaves in a violent manner (wikipedia)

Hmm..Vick, arrested, consistently commits offenses warranting the appearance of police, violent in nature and behavior

Now if you are saying he is not a thug according to above, he fits the bill.
If you are saying he is but referring to tupac's version or the likes. He is not by any means. He drags his past and the environment he grew up in around with him and does nothing to change it except to make it worse.

weird how the 2 pple talking both have "vee" in their name. what's that mean?

to vee vee:

Let's stop playing around and be real. Vick will get a fair trial. He IS guilty. And will get off more lightly than he should because of his celebrity status and money.

The "you don't know him personally" kind of argument is extremely ignorant. Do you ever really completely know someone? No. Can you still make educated guesses based on a number of factors as to who they are. Do pple really know Bush? No, yet I see all kinds of bumper stickers that attack him personally and don't even relate to his politics.

So please don't give me this "you don't know him personally" b.s. You're just avoiding the issue.

talk about hypocritical, how about this:

Mayor Ray Nagin and the governor of Louisiana slack on the job and screw up royally and then it comes of as Bush doesn't care for black pple? Excuse me, I missed the connection. Bush's mistake was that he didn't step in soon enough and take complete control to fix the mistakes of the two levels of government before him, not that he made the initial mistakes or hates black pple. Why did he get unfairly criticized and characterized? Because he's a white protestant republican male with money and power. A group that is blamed for EVERYTHING.

A group (liberals, democrats, afro-americans) that constantly cries out for due process, fairness, and warns pple of rushing to judgement is just as guilty.

I don't think the issue is whether Michael Vick is a Thug,alot of people on this site keep referring to him as a "Thug or a Ghetto Thug,let's stick to the facts and stop talking about things you know nothing about.The person that called him a ghetto Thug probably has never been to the ghetto again they were just passing judgement on a person because of what the media puts out there for you all. Let's let the court decide how to handle his case.You made a good point," do you ever really no a person completely" NO.So you shouldn't pass judgement from what the media feeds you,YOU DON"T KNOW THIS MAN COMPLETELY ,as you say.Then you want to talk about the Lyrics to Tupac's songs,I think you need to leave that alone because just by reading your comments it's very clear that you couldn't even begin to understand the lyrics.TALK ABOUT IGNORANT!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't talk about Tupac's lyrics. And why wouldn't I be able to understand his lyrics? Huh? because you assume that i'm white? or you assume that I didn't grow up poor? White pple can't understand anything black pple go through? Or that I didn't grow up in a dangerous neighborhood? one of those assumptions is right, but your conclusion isn't. I think the other Vee defined thug, and Vick fits both of those definitions.

go back and read my point about knowing someone. I was saying it's silly to withold judgement because you never know everything, but we DO make judgements every single day, so to a degree it's ok. Look at how hypocritical you are. You said we shouldn't judge pple and yet you made some false assumptions about me. You're very small-minded and simple. YEP A JUDGEMENT!

Can I say he is a punk along with everyone that think dog fighting is entertaining.

vee-vee..you are soooo off on judging whether I understand tupacs lyrics or not. Might it ever occur to you, a self proclaimed objective (credit where credit is due), that maybe some one like myself could have possibly come from the same environment as oh say Vick or heck maybe you (don't get crazy! I don't know where you come from) but because I wanted to get out that environment so bad and be something better, I chose not to use it as a crutch or drag it along with me. If that didn't GREAT!! that makes my day because it's a tell tale that regardless of where I came from I changed my life so much that some one like you (an objective person) pinned me for a know nothing. Which is why I don't believe that ANYBODY should use it as an excuse to continue to screw up especially a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE! Besides I was referencing comments made by tupac =)

ps. remember I came from a neighborhood where even the dogs rolled deep...lol

Wow vedderibetter,I'll say this again,let's just leave the environment Mike grew up in and the Tupac Lyrics alone because your comments about that are killing me.You didn't have to tell me you were white because from the comments you have been making I had already gathered that.Let's let the court and the TRUE FACTS decide the outcome of this case.Thanks for giving me the definition of a Thug from Websterdict and Wikipedia,PLEASE,you are really funny.LOL

Vee-vee you really need to look at who says stuff.

Again, I never said anything about Tupac's lyrics, although I have heard them and think he's one of the few true poets in popular hip-hop.

And I wasn't the one that gave you the definition of thug. Someone else did, and I just agreed.

However I'll just go ahead and disspell a few of your hypocritical judgements because you couldn't get was I was inferring earlier. I did grow up poor. I did grow up in a fairly bad neighborhood. And asside from the skin color stuff, I can relate to a lot of stuff in Tupac's lyrics. One of my parents does drugs, we have massive money problems, we lived without while everyone around us seemed to have it working, there was violence in my family, our house was burglarized multiple times, we didn't have the money to get special education and stuff like that. I know about the cycle of poverty, but I know it's an economical thing not a racial thing, just like so many other things people who like to make excuses chalk up to racism. please don't tell me what I do and do not understand.

Mike Vick is an idiot. It is not solely a product of his background, although it might have a small part. It is not because of the color of his skin. He made mistakes because of HIMSELF. As a person who likes to blame others, I know how easy it is, because you don't have to try as hard and if you do and fail, it's not your fault. But it's time that Vick and a lot of the black community started taking responsibility for their actions and their failures. Stop blaming me, because I'm just as poor and oppressed as a lot of you claim to be. And please don't make my reaction/theory a racial one. Bill Cosby and Charles Barkley will tell you the exact same thing, and maybe in an even harsher tone.

If you still don't think you're being unreasonable, gage your reaction next time a white person does something very wrong and see how outraged you are when everyone seems to have already made their judgement before the legal process. Be honest with yourself, it's the only way you can grow.

I don't know why anyone gives two **** about PETA anyway. They're a bunch of donkey r*ping **** eaters. Their also hypocrites. They fund the ALF (Animal Liberation Front) for blowing research facilities that do animal testing. They want to outlaw pet ownership of animals. They throw blood or red paint on people who don't follow the same ideals so to speak. They want to totally liberate animals. Probably even want to give them a right to vote. So F*** PETA!

As for Vick, you don't know if he is guilty, but he is negligent and possibly liable. The only evidence they have against him is the testimony of dog -fighting informants. The house was used for dog fighting, but you can't say he's flat out guilty just yet. Especially when we don't know all the facts. All we have is the indictment, which isn't everything. Remember, the federal justice department was having a lot of negative headlines recently, and then they take over this case and all those problems aren't talked about anymore. The reason they are targeting Vick is because they want to send a message, and make it look like they are doing something. If they went after the the non-celebs involved with this, this would have been minor news. Also, people talk about that 95% conviction rate that the FEDs have. You know why that is. Unlike State Courts, in Federal cases the prosecution doesn't have to provide all the evidence to the defense. They are allowed to keep an "Ace up thier Sleeve". So it is much harder to plan a defense around a case in which you don't have access to all the evidence. That's why the conviction rate is so high compared to state cases.

Vedderisbetter,just had a chance to read your comment and the only thing I have to say is this"everytime a ignorant comment is made to offend
the African American race,it's made by some ignorant white person.It's always some white person trying to label what Michael Vick,stop worrying
about whether he's a thug or not and let the courts and the TRUE FACTS DECIDE THIS CASE.

Vedderisbetter,you said it right ,it's time that YOU and alot of the white community start taking responsibility for the ignorant comments you make. Seems like some of you are more concerned about making racist comments about Mike rather than letting the True Facts Decide this case.

Also Vedderisbetter,you want to talk about the black community taking responsibility for their actions,how about Gail Clayton reading some hate letter addresed to Mike Vick,she should have thrown that letter away instead of posting it on this website.Talk about promoting hate,some of you like Gail Clayton need to take responsibility for promoting hate on this website.I noticed that you said in your comment that some Black people
claim to be poor and oppressed,what do you mean claim to be? I don't have to make your theory a racial one because I think you are doing a good job of that on your own.PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!