BurghHockey12's Blog
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If you follow the TD section of FN on a regular basis you probably saw the massive breakdown of the entire TD section today.  The open section was flooded with protest TD's, guys leaving, guys allowed back, and everyone trying to voice their frustrations and opinions while the mods tried their best to clean up everything.

As a result of today, three of the more active and respected TDers left or were kicked from the website.

 rstowe, BobbyOrrsBastid, and Dyhard, as well as other active members.

A movement was made for guys to leave for a different site, which will remain nameless in this blog.  A site that I signed up for today myself.

 Now, unlike some other people I thought a blog would be a better avenue to air out my frustrations with what has happened to the Throwdown section of the site.  I will also state that I have no intentions on ending my account here.  I have spent a good amount of time here building a reputation and accumulating a large number of TD's and have enjoyed my time here for the most part.  I have never been accused of cheating, tried to be respectful to those I admire here, and hopefully entertained some people during my time.

But there are certainly some trends that irk me.  And over the past few months the TD section has really declined, culminating into the fiasco this weekend and today.

 I will first address the non-argument TD's.  This problem is clearly in the hands of the mods.  Why a non-argument TD is permitted on the site is beyond me, it seems like a clear failure in the design process and it is very frustrating for the users.  I do understand that overhauling the entire system is probably out of the question, but why are these allowed to clog of the boards for hours?  Some aren't even sports related.

And even more frustrating are the non-argument TD's from years ago being bumped back onto the active board.  This weekend there were only three actual active TD's and the rest were these place fillers that have no purpose being there.  I have to imagine several people reported them, so why are they still there?  Delete them please.  I realize there are not enough eyes to maintain the site 24/7, but a better job has to be done to help get rid of these.

Out of the mods control is another major problem with the site.  Duping, FMing, etc.  Bottom line, the blatant cheating that occurs in almost every TD on this site.  I myself put a ton of time and effort into these, I don't FM people my TD's very often, and not to massive amounts of people like some on the site.  Yet, in the past few months I have had a few TD's, some in tourneys, ruined by these tactics.

Whether some like to hear it or not, the mods really can't do anything about this.  From my understanding of the situation, they can't track the IP adresses of the users, and they can't stop people from sending FM's to others.  So what exactly can they do about it?

I find cheating to be the biggest problem with the site, as do others, so this is the real problem that needs to be solved.  And if the mods don't have the capacity to do so, than it is up to us as FN members to fix the problem.

I think I may have such a solution.

In most of the TD's that duping occurs, the score is pretty close.  At most seperated by just a few votes.  So what if there was a panel of respected users who could help even the score?  A group of members who could look at a TD and make a ruling as to whether cheating is really occuring.  Almost like an arbitrator of sorts.

Basically, if you feel that you are being cheated out of a TD, you submit the throwdown to the panel, they look at it, and if they feel cheating is occuring they can lend their votes to you.  There has been more than one occasion where I got an FM from someone crying foul during a TD, this is pretty much the same concept except less biased and out in the open.

 So I am proposing we make a group called the FN Arbitrators, or something like that.  In the group you can post links to TD's you feel have been altered by cheating.  The panel can see your TD, each make a ruling on it, and cast votes accordlingly.

Is my idea out there?  Yeah, but I'm just trying to right the ship.  This site is fun when it is working correctly and if the mods can't or won't control it, we need to do it ourselves.  This is just the foundation for my idea, and I would like to hear some feedback from you guys too.  Maybe this could help solve some problems.

August 23, 2010  07:40 PM ET

Bobby wasn't an active TDer :-p

As for your idea, it doesnt' work. "If the panel feels cheating occurred..."
How does the panel determine this? I've seen lots of "vets" randomly accuse new players of being Roy, being dupes, etc...

I think the first two steps are:

1. More active and intelligent mods. There is too much crap going on and nobody seems to do anything about it.

2. Create some sort of IP/Machine ID system for registering accounts. Or an email link activation that requires you to update your account every 3 months or so. Something to weed out all the dupes.

August 23, 2010  07:42 PM ET

I wouldn't do it. Part of the reason the site is the way it is is because of this "Vigilante" tactic that people feel empowered to take matters into their own hands by this affiliation. Creating their own "Clans" and their own army of Dupes to combat just one member really made this site trashy. Once this is done, how can you level the playing field knowing that this has occurred?

"Wash" the leaderboard monthly, give the ones who actively want to do TDs a goal. Also if SI could prevent voting until both participants have submitted 2 arguments, it would deter someone from cheating because everyone will know for sure which argument deserves your vote.

This is a good & helpful blog, well done.

August 23, 2010  08:00 PM ET

This blog was necessary and parallels my personal opinion about 90%.

I agree with Alchemist that a vigilante group would come with questionable integrity. Although I believe it would be a more civil approach than "the Clan". So I'm going to split this concept in half...

Here's what I like
A panel of respected users to act as an arbitrator. No more witch hunts. No more quick to judge accusations. Run cheating allegations through a panel of arbitrators. Then we can have a (hopefully) unbiased opinion formed by multiple users before slapping a scarlet letter on anyone.

Here's what I dislike
Lending votes in an effort to level the playing field.

August 23, 2010  09:15 PM ET
QUOTE:

Its too **** late, the world has ended and no one gives a pigs ****. Stop your crybaby bullshoot.This place is a dump and looking more like low income housing everyday.

Are you running for the Panel Of Respected Users??? It looks like you would make an excellent arbitrator. Kind of a WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE!!! approach.

August 23, 2010  10:30 PM ET

As a result of today, three of the more active and respected TDers left or were kicked from the website.

rstowe, BobbyOrrsBastid, and Dyhard, as well as other active members.


I don't know about BoB, but the other two ASKED to be deleted. They weren't 'kicked' from the site. I'm just glad that Stowes TD's weren't deleted with him as some of the TDs between he and I were among the best ever done on this site. I say that truly and unapologetically

From my understanding of the situation, they can't track the IP adresses of the users

It's not that this CAN'T happen, it's that it's not feasible. Never ceases to amaze me how many people don't understand how this works. An IP address does nothing but track a NETWORK. If you, me, Stowe, and Porkins all work at the same place in the same area...we all have the SAME IP address. If you block it, you block ALL of us.

If you blocked MY IP it wouldn't matter in the least. There are 3 others I could log into just in this area.

Short answer, it's NOT an answer to the problem.

"and they can't stop people from sending FM's to others. "

Yep. Wrote a blog on this one some time ago. Basically those who vote beg via FM don't see it as cheating (shock). Those who don't, do. It IS cheating, and I outlined why in the blog, but this isn't something the mods can do a damn thing about.

I find cheating to be the biggest problem with the site

It's most assuredly the biggest problem for those who TD, anyhow. Is why I don't TD anymore.

So I am proposing we make a group called the FN Arbitrators, or something like that. In the group you can post links to TD's you feel have been altered by cheating.

Here's the problem with such a group....it compounds the problem. In fact, it makes it tenfold worse. Let's say DJ is losing a TD...he comes to the group and claims 'cheating' is going on... sorry, the VAST majority of the group isn't going to do the due dilligence, they are going to take DJs word for it and vote for him...thus making the problem even worse.

August 23, 2010  10:57 PM ET

One of main contributing factors is the lack of any sort of moderation of this site on nights and weekends. You see serially-banned posters come on late Friday and even though they admit who they really are, they stay through the weekend.

The moderation of this site is questionable at best. There are no consequences for cheating, which is one of many reasons I don't TD. You also have to worry about popularity and title voting. The only way to make it fair will never happen. TDs would have to be judged by a panel of impartial judges who really understand the process. No way FN will pay for that when they won't even pay for moderators.

August 23, 2010  11:14 PM ET
QUOTE(#2):

I wouldn't do it. Part of the reason the site is the way it is is because of this "Vigilante" tactic that people feel empowered to take matters into their own hands by this affiliation. Creating their own "Clans" and their own army of Dupes to combat just one member really made this site trashy. Once this is done, how can you level the playing field knowing that this has occurred?"Wash" the leaderboard monthly, give the ones who actively want to do TDs a goal. Also if SI could prevent voting until both participants have submitted 2 arguments, it would deter someone from cheating because everyone will know for sure which argument deserves your vote.This is a good & helpful blog, well done.

You continue to act like you know what you are talking bout.

Not one person in the "clan" every created a dupe account. Not one.

You speak as if you just joined this site yesterday. I hope nobody actually takes you seriously.

August 23, 2010  11:18 PM ET

If the FN Arbitrator group is ever created, I would love to be a part of it.

I hate cheaters, as you know.

August 23, 2010  11:43 PM ET

Did someone mention you? Clearly your being paranoid.

You had your so called "board" and like what C-C-C said, contributed greatly to this distasteful fiasco.

August 24, 2010  01:00 AM ET

- Get rid of the advertisements (before they are posted)
- Get rid of TD's with no arguments
- Put some more effort int the T&R's
- People shouldn't take themselves so seriously. All these heavy reactions are just what the disrupters want.

August 24, 2010  01:01 AM ET
QUOTE(#7):

Typical long quote by CCC

Agree 100%

Dang, I've missed your comments :-)

August 24, 2010  01:43 AM ET
QUOTE(#10):

You continue to act like you know what you are talking bout.Not one person in the "clan" every created a dupe account. Not one.You speak as if you just joined this site yesterday. I hope nobody actually takes you seriously.

LMAO.

YOU continue to act like you know what you are talking about.

You are wrong...WAY wrong.

I SURE hope nobody takes YOU seriously because you REALLY don't have a clue.

Hint: Some in the 'clan' had dupe accounts before YOU knew what this site is. FACT. Don't presume to tell others what is FACT when you yourself don't have the first clue.

August 24, 2010  01:44 AM ET
QUOTE(#14):

Agree 100% Dang, I've missed your comments :-)

Lol. Looks like I shouldn't have bothered to look in. SSDD.

August 24, 2010  01:50 AM ET
QUOTE:

Good comment, very enlightening.

Worthless comment, why bother?

August 24, 2010  02:03 AM ET
QUOTE(#7):

CCC comment

BOB was kicked. The response he got from the mods is highly questionable, he sent me the entire transcript earlier today. I'm not 100% sure with Dyhard, but he did start about 7 open TD's mocking the mods so I assume he was kicked? Rstowe asked for his account to be deleted.

August 24, 2010  02:06 AM ET
QUOTE(#18):

BOB was kicked. The response he got from the mods is highly questionable, he sent me the entire transcript earlier today. I'm not 100% sure with Dyhard, but he did start about 7 open TD's mocking the mods so I assume he was kicked? Rstowe asked for his account to be deleted.

Yep and Yep on the last two. Dunno about BoB. Didn't see it, just heard about it.

August 24, 2010  08:54 AM ET

Stop the crying. This is a site for entertainment. Some of you act like you own the place. If you don't like all the new people and their throwdowns (no matter how senseless they may be), then don't accept them. Oh wait, if you didn't then a lot of the so called veterans would not have half the wins they do.

August 24, 2010  09:52 AM ET
QUOTE(#15):

LMAO. YOU continue to act like you know what you are talking about.You are wrong...WAY wrong. I SURE hope nobody takes YOU seriously because you REALLY don't have a clue. Hint: Some in the 'clan' had dupe accounts before YOU knew what this site is. FACT. Don't presume to tell others what is FACT when you yourself don't have the first clue.

He is saying that the "clan", who was myself, AllStarz, Schadenfreud, pickle, and Cain made dupe accounts to vote against Roy.

It's completely untrue.

I understand that some people have made dupe accounts in the past, but the so called "clan", did not.

That is a FACT.

August 24, 2010  01:41 PM ET
QUOTE(#21):

He is saying that the "clan", who was myself, AllStarz, Schadenfreud, pickle, and Cain made dupe accounts to vote against Roy.It's completely untrue.I understand that some people have made dupe accounts in the past, but the so called "clan", did not.That is a FACT.

That is a fact, never did such a thing happen, and whoever is purveying such falsehoods knows not of what they speak. Period, end of story, I have never had an alter let alone a dupe.
And don't bother with CCC, he get off pretending he knows everything.

 
August 24, 2010  02:48 PM ET

I love this site, I love the concept of being able to argue sports in a structured manner and letting the public decide. It really sucks having a good TD ruined by individuals who FM or just don't bother reading the TD and vote for name only. I can't pretend to know the answer to these problems, just say my piece and hope that some sort of action is taken.

I have to assume that FM works similar to email, isn't there a way to be able to put some sort of scan in place to see the FMs that are sent with a link? Most individuals are not going to sit and search for a particular TD unless it contains a link. Eliminate the ability to FM a link to another TD.

As for the panel of unbiased individuals that are willing to look in on suspected dupe TD's, then they are going to have to be individuals that have been on the site and shown that they are not going to let this position go to their head.

I think there should be a tournament section in TD's, this section should hold monthly tourneys with the coordinator being chosen by the mods. I think this would add to some of the interest in the TD section, while making a properly run tourney for all TD'ers that actually enjoy the competition. I don't know how it would be done, I can say that for all of the crap that everyone gives CCC, his tourney was the best one that I have been a part of because the only votes that truly mattered were the ones by the individuals that were in it. So if you dupe and your record goes up, big deal, you still don't advance.

Some of these issues need to be addressed in some manner, and by no means, do I think I have the answer to all of these issues. I would just like to be able to log on and see some good sports TD's. I would really like to see something come of this blog. Very nice post BHOCK.

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