MMA  > General MMA  > Mir
August 25, 2010, 10:14 AM
OK guys, let's do something different.
I will put a fighter's name here, and we can discuss everything about him.

Like him? Don't?
Is he good? Bad? Over-Hyped?
and so forth :)

To begin with, let's start with Mir.

IMO he is very enigmatic.
He sometimes look like someone who can be the champ forever... then the "other" Mir shows up and he has a terrible fight.
Happened against Vera, against Lesnar and Carwin.

So where does he belong? Is he still top 5? Is he just a sidenote?Is he even relevant now?

LET's HEAR IT!!!
August 25, 2010  10:42 AM ET

I don't like him but I like his MMA skills, he is good at what he does and can be a great teacher after he retires but I think he is way too cocky with this death threats towards Brock after he got his face smashed. Then he talked smack to congo while congo at first was crediting Mir style of fighting. I wouldn't say he is top 5 but could be the 5th one.

August 25, 2010  10:57 AM ET

I will also agree that I too don't like him. And I don't think he is that great of a fighter. He does posses great abilities to catch some guys in quick submissions but thats it for him. He is not as committed to his training as he should be. IMO

August 25, 2010  11:06 AM ET

mir has the strangest ability to look amazing against lower level competition and completly forget how to fight against top competition(yes brandon vera was top competition when he thought he was invincible)
He is one of the most skillfull BJJ fighters as well as a very technical boxer but his biggest problem i think is mixing them all together.
he does not stick to the smart gameplan which works out for him -see ko big nog- out boxing congo before the sub, BUT it also goes horribly wrong-standing with carwin-jumping knee from the clinch with lesnar ?!? WHY

as far as i am concerned he may work his way into a title shot again but it is unlikely as i dont think he can beat the new breed of heavyweight and pull off a second amazing performance back to back

i think the next step to test him would be a fight against roy "big country belly" nelson -a fight he can win but a stiff enough test

August 25, 2010  11:10 AM ET
QUOTE:

I have never seen the fight`s against Vera, or Carwin, so clue me in on those please.

vera (at 240lsb or so) knocked him out in just over a minuit
carwin and he traded,clinched, carwin pushed him around for a minuite or two then finally just decided to throw uppercuts to see what would happen and knocked him out just before 4 mins rnd1

he is still in the UFC commentates for WEC and i do not know when his next fight is

August 25, 2010  11:21 AM ET

I don't like him.

I don't really like his skill set either. He has a good top game but lousy wrestling. He has a decent half guard but doesn't seem to like to sweep from there. He has decent striking but is nothing special.

I do believe that a fight between himself and Mirko will be far more competitive than you think. He has stuffed the takedowns of far better wrestlers than Mir, including the likes of Fujita, Coleman and Waterman. He has better striking than Mir, of that there should be no question. And Mir has said that the key to beating him is to press forward, I wish him luck with that. After he eats a couple of short left straights he doesn't see coming and then a high kick before you know it and then Mirko is on top pounding him out for the KO finish, then perhaps he will reassess the situation.

August 25, 2010  11:23 AM ET
QUOTE:

where is Mir now ? Does he have any fight`s coming up ? Is he still a UFC guy ?

Yes Mir is fighting Cro cop in ufc 119

August 25, 2010  11:25 AM ET

ok, here I go.
Mir is just a great guy with a HUGE heart!
It is my opinion that he has a twin brother who is not good at all, but his mom forces him to put (the brother) on his biggest fights, so (if the brother wins) they will have 2 top fighters in UFC
But the brother keeps screwing it up and l;osing all important Mir Matches and this is why he keeps having to win greatly to get a new title shot....but then the brother loses again....

it's just a vicious circle!!!

August 25, 2010  11:34 AM ET

Ok, seriously now, I think Mir is a great fighter.
He does have great analytical mind, and will probably be a comentator once he hangs the 4 once gloves.

He is cocky. But then again, I take that he talks smack more to get under the skin of his opponent than anything else.
I think that he is also taken out of context. When he said he wanted to see Lesnar die in the cage, it was just to show he really wanted that fight, and not that he has ill feeling towards the guy.

Now, on his fighting style, I think Mir overestimate how many punches he could take. he probably thought his BJJ could take him out of any bad spot, and so he use to just wing it...
IMO his gameplan is: "I'll get in there, see what openings I find and capitalize on it"
He did it on his first fight against Lesnar, but then he didn't really show anything on the second fight or against Carwin.
I mean, why would ANYONE try to stand with Carwin? IMO he tried because he wanted to prove he could take his punches, or maybe he wanted to see if his new improved body could compete against thoise beasts... it doesn't really matter in the end, either way was dumb to try it on his fight for the title match.

I do like him. And maybe it is because of it I don't get riled up by his antics before the fight.
But I think he needs to take his fights more serious that he is showing... specially when it counts most.

Now, if he is still relevant, I thin he might be.
I am sure that if he really worked hard and got a good gameplan, he could beat Both Lesnar or Carwin while they are "fresh". He still is (IMO) light years ahead in MMA knowledge, but he has to stop thinking that this will bail him out. because it did once, but as time passes, it is less and less likely it will save him again.

August 25, 2010  11:40 AM ET
QUOTE:

where is Mir now ? Does he have any fight`s coming up ? Is he still a UFC guy ?

Mir was supposed to fight Big Nog again, but Nog pulled out due to injury.
Cro Cop will replace him, but I don't really like this fight.

Cro Cop is at the end of his brilliant career and is surely not the fighter he was while in Pride.
He is on a winning streak, but really, he beat just cans.

The thing I don't like about this fight is simple:
I don't see Cro Cop beating Mir. And if he does, it will be because he caught Mir with a big kick or something.
On Mir's side, if he beat Cro Cop, what would he prove? That he can beat old declining guys? Obviously UFC will use it to put Mir back into title contention, for a possible third fight against Lesnar....and I don't think that beating Cro Cop proves you belong there.

on the other hand, I don't like the fight for Cro Cop. he is a great legend of the sport. Beating Mir just shows Mir has really no chin, but where would Cro Cop go from there?
He already said he does not have the drive to fight anymore, and if he beats Mir, they will probably feed him to Carwin or Lesnar, and I would HATE to see Cro Cop get pummeled.
They should have kept him fighting middle of the pack guys and retire in one piece.

Comment #16 has been removed
Comment #17 has been removed
August 25, 2010  12:03 PM ET

I used to like Mir, but now he is just a guy that talks to build up his fights. His fighting skills are lacking so he compensates with his mouth. He can't contend with any of the top guys anymore. Carwin killed him, Lesnar killed him, JDS would kill him. So to me he is an afterthought in the HW division now. Yes he could catch anyone with a quick submission, but he will never be consistant. He could be a gatekeeper now. He has the all around skills needed for it, so if a fighter were to beat him then they could say he has bea a quality opponent. Mir will beat Cro Cop, but what does that prove? He beat a fighter that is in the twilight of his career and mere reflection of his former self.

August 25, 2010  12:22 PM ET

I actually thought of Mir as a terrible GK.
because on his inconsistancy, he could lose to a terrible fighter and submit a great one. You never know which Mir will show up for the fight....

August 25, 2010  12:26 PM ET
QUOTE(#19):

I actually thought of Mir as a terrible GK.because on his inconsistancy, he could lose to a terrible fighter and submit a great one. You never know which Mir will show up for the fight....

yeah but he is the best guy for the job in the UFC right now. He is a better all around fighter than Congo or anyone else there...

August 25, 2010  12:27 PM ET
QUOTE(#9):

ok, here I go.Mir is just a great guy with a HUGE heart!It is my opinion that he has a twin brother who is not good at all, but his mom forces him to put (the brother) on his biggest fights, so (if the brother wins) they will have 2 top fighters in UFCBut the brother keeps screwing it up and l;osing all important Mir Matches and this is why he keeps having to win greatly to get a new title shot....but then the brother loses again....it's just a vicious circle!!!

see what happens when you don't run one twin over with a truck
the nogeura's were the same way untill minotauro got ran over and saw the errors of his ways
now they are both good

so the moral of this story - if a twin looks at you funny he's the evil one and only some form of mob will be sufficient to deal with him and break the vicious circle :)

August 25, 2010  12:39 PM ET
QUOTE(#20):

yeah but he is the best guy for the job in the UFC right now. He is a better all around fighter than Congo or anyone else there...

no other gatekeepers are better at what they do -there skills are usually fairly consistent and they specialize in striking or wrestling mir has flashes of brilliance and is a very good counter sub specialist(as opposed to aggresive submisionist -demian maia-)
heath herring,congo,roy nelson, gilbert yvel(on the low end of gatekeepers)
mir is between a gatekeeper and title eliminator as in losing to him is no reason to be cut but beating him may not mean you are ready for a title shot but that you are close





what do you think about stefan struve? kid puts on some muscle and works on his striking he will be a monster in 2-3 years

August 25, 2010  01:01 PM ET
QUOTE:

that sounds like a good fight to me, what do you guys think of it ?

I don't think Cro cop is a threat to Mir, unless Mir comes in the fight with a cracked rib, then maybe he can pull off a win in the last round lol

August 25, 2010  01:07 PM ET
QUOTE(#21):

see what happens when you don't run one twin over with a truckthe nogeura's were the same way untill minotauro got ran over and saw the errors of his waysnow they are both goodso the moral of this story - if a twin looks at you funny he's the evil one and only some form of mob will be sufficient to deal with him and break the vicious circle :)

that shows how little you know about MMA!!!
For the last time I'l repeat this: Nog wasn't run over a tracktor!
He BEAT THE HEALL OUT OF THE TRACTOR!!!!!
We put people against machines in Brazil. That's how they train!!!

August 25, 2010  01:31 PM ET

I think Mir is horribly overrated. That's not to say he's not good; just not as good as he or the UFC make him out to be. He came to prominence during the saddest, weakest era American heavyweight MMA has ever seen. He won the title from Tubby Timmy; before that his biggest career-defining moment was...what? Tapping out Tank Abbot? Retiring Petey Williams? Beating Wes Sims by DQ? Not quite the resume of a title contender, yet he was given a shot anyway.
After losing the fight against his motorcycle, he came back fat and looked, well, like crap. I guess time tends to gloss over inconvenient facts, but doesn't anyone remember that he was supposed to basically be fed to Lesnar in their first fight? A controversial stand-up and kneebar later, and a career is resurrected. He parlayed that into an impressive(?) KO of a faded and infirm Nog before being mauled by a much improved Lesnar. He then submitted a man with absolutely zero submission or ground skills before getting mauled again, this time by Carwin.
So really, career highlights: wins over Lesnar (1-0 at the time), Sylvia (never a top-tier fighter, but the best the UFC had at the time), Nogueira (sick with staph and roughly 200 years old at the time). Career lowlights: KO'd by Vera, Freeman, and nearly murdered by Lesnar and Carwin.
Is this an elite fighter? No. But he knows how to market himself as one, apparently.

 
August 25, 2010  01:44 PM ET
QUOTE(#25):

I think Mir is horribly overrated. That's not to say he's not good; just not as good as he or the UFC make him out to be. He came to prominence during the saddest, weakest era American heavyweight MMA has ever seen. He won the title from Tubby Timmy; before that his biggest career-defining moment was...what? Tapping out Tank Abbot? Retiring Petey Williams? Beating Wes Sims by DQ? Not quite the resume of a title contender, yet he was given a shot anyway.After losing the fight against his motorcycle, he came back fat and looked, well, like crap. I guess time tends to gloss over inconvenient facts, but doesn't anyone remember that he was supposed to basically be fed to Lesnar in their first fight? A controversial stand-up and kneebar later, and a career is resurrected. He parlayed that into an impressive(?) KO of a faded and infirm Nog before being mauled by a much improved Lesnar. He then submitted a man with absolutely zero submission or ground skills before getting mauled again, this time by Carwin.So really, career highlights: wins over Lesnar (1-0 at the time), Sylvia (never a top-tier fighter, but the best the UFC had at the time), Nogueira (sick with staph and roughly 200 years old at the time). Career lowlights: KO'd by Vera, Freeman, and nearly murdered by Lesnar and Carwin.Is this an elite fighter? No. But he knows how to market himself as one, apparently.

Who would you consider elite then because the guys at the top don't have a resume that can beat Mir's IMO except for Brock.

Who did Carwin beat besides Mir??
JDS biggest win is either lucky Werdum or Fat Boy Nelson.
Cain's is Big Nog which can't really be used since you said it wasn't a quality win for Mir.

Those 3 plus Brock are the 4 guys usually put ahead of Mir but none of them besides Brock has a better resume other than the fact the have a bunch of wins with 1 or no losses, but against mid to low tier talent.

Just confuses me why people jump off the Mir bandwagon b/c he lost to the 2 most unbeatable looking HW there are in the world.

I love Mir, I love his attitude b/c he is confident/cocky but he is intelligent about it. It's not like Rampage or Rashad who just go around saying i'm gonna knock this guy or that guy out. He knows how to be comical and cunning at the same time. He will always be a very good commentator and hopefully once he retires he can take the place of Goldberg.

His skill set is solid but nowadays if you don't have some kind of wrestling background its very hard to compete. Look at Silva, he is the P4P best, or at least #2, and he was smothered for 4 1/2 rounds b/c he can't wrestle, he was just lucky enough and good enough to get the sub. Mir did the same thing against Brock in the 1st fight, but wasn't so lucky in the 2nd one. His standup is good but his chin is suspect which makes it difficult for him to just stand and bang with guys, but he has no dominant way to get the fight to the ground and on top where he is best. He just needs to find a way to put it on together.

He is clearly still a relevant fighter as he would give anyone problems not named Brock or Carwin and I think he has a better shot against Brock if he sticks to the gameplan and keeps it standing. (easier said then done i know.) I think he should fight either Nelson or the loser of the Brock-Cain fight after he beats (at least I think he will win) Cro Cop.

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