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MMA > General MMA > Between the UFC and Strikeforce no one seems to be able to keep the 205 belt- Why?

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August 25, 2010, 03:32 PM

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Joseph: Because the talent levels are near parity. There???s no LHW who has either dominant well-rounded skills or favorable matchmaking. Lawal lost largely because he was too green and got cocky; Mousasi lost because he apparently thought he was going to a nap-off instead of a fight; Machida simply had a bad style matchup; Evans too; Forrest got caught; Rampage lost a close decision because of a bad matchup as well. The two most dominant 205ers in history are Chuck and Wanderlei. Chuck kept his belt partly due to favorable matchups against grapplers with poor chins and no KO power; Wanderlei took on some tough guys, but also had a steady diet of underweight, under-talented Japanese fighters. 205 is the weight where speed and power collide, and anyone holding a title there for any length of time is either a cut above the rest, or the product of favorable matchmaking. Not to add, no small bit of luck.

Shane:This is just like the famous phrase, that???s the way the cookie crumbled. The competition is stiff. In SF you have a lot of specialty guys that aren???t as well rounded, i.e. wrestlers primarily, BJJ primarily, banger primarily???.SF is creating style match-ups and Feijao won???t hold that belt long. In the UFC the guys are all so talented that on any given night one could beat the other. Rua could should to be a dominant champion is he handles to top contenders in the fashion that he handled Machida. With the mix the way it is you have Machida, Rua, Evans, Rampage, possibly Bones Jones and maybe a few others as possible title runners.

Joao: In the case of the UFC it is because it???s arguably the organization???s deepest division when it comes to talent and elite fighters. When Liddell lost his championship the UFC was suddenly flooded with new Light Heavyweight talent. Right now you have got Rampage, Rashad Evans, Lyoto Machida, Thiago Silva, Jon Jones, Shogun, Forrest, Couture, Minotouro, Bader. Some of these guys, if not all of them, can be champions, thus the added competitiveness makes title holders lose their belt in a hurry.
In Strikeforce the case is different, the depth isn???t there. King Mo, Mousasi, Babalu and Feij??o. That???s about it??? but you don???t have a dominant guy in this group. Mousasi is/ was, in theory, the most dominant fighter in this group but he fell prey to the takedowns and lay ???n pray of King Mo. Mo isn???t experienced enough and his stand-up is pathetic. The lack of a really dominant Light Heavyweight in Strikeforce allows for a non-elite fighter such as Feij??o to hold the belt; and bear in mind that he got the title shot because someone had to and Babalu didn???t want to fight King Mo. Feij??o won???t hold it for very long. I see Babalu getting the title shot and beating Feij??o; and that would make an enigmatic scenario in which King Mo has beaten Mousasi, Mousasi has beaten Babalu, Babalu has beaten Feij??o and Feij??o has beaten King Mo.

David: I think it has to do with the talent level there. There are not a ton of guys wandering around at 265, and without a cruiserweight belt, its a lot easier for a 220 pound guy to cut down to 205 than to bulk up to 265, ask Frank Mir. If they added even a 230/5 title, the talent at 205 would be cut a great deal. You take Rampage, Randy, Thiago,Lil Nog out of 205, and the chances Shogun puts together a run goes up a great deal. Feijao is a bad matchup for most of the SF roster, and if he can get by Danny, he might put together a run.

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August 25, 2010 03:32 PM ET

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By all means- comment.

Bloggers Needed

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August 25, 2010 04:00 PM ET

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I agree with pretty much everything except for Josephs comments on Chuck having fought favorable matchups against guys with poor chins. In his 7 fight title run the only one who can be considered having a poor chin is Vernon White. Tito, Randy, Horn, and Babalu are some of the hardest guys to knockout at least at the time Chuck fought them.

Randy was the champ and had already beaten Chuck and had only been KOd once prior to that fight by a steroid using Barnett.

Tito's only KO losses were to Chuck and the 2nd time he was riding a 5 fight win streak.

Horn was riding a 6 fight win streak and had 1 TKO loss.

Sobrals only KO loss was the first fight with Chuck and he was riding a 10 fight win streak that included wins over Chael Sonnen, Shogun, Van Arsdale, and Jeremy Horn.

I wouldn't say Chuck got favorable matches, just looked that way b/c he was so dominant.

MasterBatter

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August 25, 2010 04:31 PM ET

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QUOTE(#3):

Originally posted 04:15 PM ET 08.25 by El Diablo

David brings up a point that I REALLY wish would gain momentum... There needs to be 235 lb weight class...

100% agree with that. Think of the possible contenders in that division. Rampage, Machida, Mir, JDS, Randy, Jones, Forrest, and even Silva.

MasterBatter

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August 25, 2010 05:06 PM ET

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i like how people jumps always to the point: UFC = talent, SF = lack of talent.
This is ludicrus IMO.

Roni

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August 25, 2010 05:18 PM ET

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QUOTE(#7):

Originally posted 05:14 PM ET 08.25 by JimJ77 Can't make it up

Deep talent pool. UFC has it, SF doesnt.

are you going to tell me Feijao is a one-facet fighter like Maia?
or that Mousasi is not a well rounded fighter? Please hater, be quiet :)

I do agree UFC has nore overall talent. but just tell me: how well rounded is Rashad? or rampae? or Maia?

The only real talent they have are Rua, Machida lil' Nog and an untested (against elite) Bones.
Rampage is a declining wrestler. Rashad is a pure wrestler.

I am not saying that UFC lacks, but it is ludicrous to say that SF has no talent.

Roni

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August 25, 2010 05:32 PM ET

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QUOTE(#8):

Originally posted 05:18 PM ET 08.25 by Roni

but just tell me: how well rounded is Rashad?

Rashad has solid stand up to go with very good wrestling/ground and pound. Whereas the last SF champ that just happened to beat Mousasi has only wrestling. UFC is clearly deeper and more talented. There are maybe 3-4 good LHW in SF. Mousasi, Feijao, Lawal (1-dimensional) and I don't know who else maybe Sokodjou or Babalu. The UFC has Machida, Shogun, Jones, Lil Nog, Evans, Rampage, Silva, Bader, Forrest, Couture, and Franklin. I would take any of the UFC guys over Lawal. At least 7 over Fiejao and probably half over Mousasi.

You say Rampage and Rashad are just wrestlers with one declining but I would bet my house they would both beat down King Mo and he is at worst SF #3 guy

MasterBatter

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August 25, 2010 05:33 PM ET

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QUOTE(#9):

Originally posted 05:27 PM ET 08.25 by JimJ77 Can't make it up

Never said they dont have talent. I said they dont have a deep talent pool. Name me the top 10 LHW's in SF.

They only have 13 listed on their roster. In most top 10 LHW rankings 8 of the 10 spots are UFC guys and a majority have the top 5 all UFC

MasterBatter

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August 25, 2010 06:14 PM ET

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I disagree with you that all of those would beat Mousasi or even Feijao.

Look, I don't want to polarize the discussion.
I never said SF got more talent than UFC neither.
but I think it is borderline assinine to say they got no talent or only one-sided fighters.

King mo is green... probably as much as Lesnar. so what?
Wasn't Maia the #2 in his division? is there anyone that is more one trick poney than him?

The thing is the attitude. UFC is always awesome while SF no matter whom is second rate fighter. That is ridiculous.

Someone said Fedor was in minor league (SF) while Lesnar was in Major league (UFC) and thus Lesnar was more bound to be P4P than fedor.

Now if you people agree with this, i prove my point (and will probably kill myself)