MMA  > General MMA  > Supplements
October 7, 2010, 08:24 AM
This is just a very general thread.

You can post anything here about the subject: about how they affect athletes, whether or not you think Steroids should be legal, where the line is drawn between legal "supplements" and "Performance Enhancing Drugs", exc.

Also, I'm interested to know what supplements some of you guys take or have taken in the past, and how much you think they affect athletic performance.
October 7, 2010  08:25 AM ET

Hmm. Why did that double post I wonder...

October 7, 2010  03:39 PM ET

Boy, no love for this.

October 8, 2010  11:38 AM ET

I'm in the minority in my beliefs on PED's, at least to those I've talked to about it, but I believe the record books should be closed off, and a new book opened with the title "Modern" or something attached to it, then let Professional athletes take whatever they feel necessary. They're adults. There's no way to stop them because the new designer PED's is always coming out. And any Professional sport. Of course there's the issue of PED's being classified as Class 3 narcotics, but that isn't the issue, the issue is there's no way in stopping it, so just let 'em! Let's be honest, most Pro's are on something anyway, we just hear about the ones getting caught. Baseball is a good example of that.

I've never taken the big one's, roids and HGH, but when it was available I tried Andro (worked like a champion), Creatine (recommend it to anyone, as long as water intake is up to par), and then Glutamine, BCAA's, and some other Amino Acids along with a gamut of vitamins. Made me strong and huge (I was powerlifting at the time). The key to all this is water intake, at least, AT LEAST, a gallon of water per day.

That's my two cents.

October 8, 2010  12:02 PM ET
QUOTE(#3):

I've never taken the big one's, roids and HGH, but when it was available I tried Andro (worked like a champion)

And I realize that Andro is a type of steroid, I've never tried the roids that the Pro's are using now, is what I was trying to say.

Comment #5 has been removed
Comment #6 has been removed
October 8, 2010  01:11 PM ET

I have taken creatine in the past but in small doses.

I personally wouldn't advise anyone in taking steroids, HGH, perhaps not even creatine.

I mean, if you're a professional athlete and competing is your job, then I see why you would take it.

But, if not, the risks outweigh, IMO, the potential rewards.

Two things I would like to point out:

- There are not enough studies, not enough data on most of the substances we are talking about.

- Everything the makes your muscles grow also makes your heart grow. It's a muscle just like any other; any doctor will tell you this. Take a look at pro wrestling, for example; many pro wrestlers die at a young age of heart attack. The condition is almost always the same: enlarged heart. Draw your conclusions.

October 8, 2010  01:15 PM ET
QUOTE(#3):

I'm in the minority in my beliefs on PED's, at least to those I've talked to about it, but I believe the record books should be closed off, and a new book opened with the title "Modern" or something attached to it, then let Professional athletes take whatever they feel necessary. They're adults.

With that logic in mind, shouldn't we legalize heroine and cocaine too?

Adults know what's best for them, after all.

October 8, 2010  02:02 PM ET
QUOTE(#8):

With that logic in mind, shouldn't we legalize heroine and cocaine too?Adults know what's best for them, after all.

Yes, I do believe that. At first there would be A LOT of problems like overdoses, but I call that natural selection. Just because it's legal doesn't mean we should do it. Alcohol is legal, but I don't drink it. If those drugs were legalized, then there goes the black market (in theory). I believe the government should manufacture such things, have the same rules as alcohol (no one under 21, no working on substances) and use the money to pay off the national debt. I read somewhere that if the US government were to legalize pot, control it and tax it, it would erase our debt in some ludicrous amount like 5 years. Of course all this would cause more corruption at the top, but there's that anyway so who cares.
Radical I know, and a lot of things that would need to be worked out, but it would solve as many problems as it being illegal creates.

October 8, 2010  02:05 PM ET

And of course Hyped, there would be a lot of issues at first, but like in Spain (this is what I've heard, so don't lambast me) a person can drink at 15 or 16. Is there any more problems over there then there is over here where a person has to be 21? Like I said, at first there would be problems, but after a few years, it would calm down...

October 8, 2010  03:31 PM ET
QUOTE(#11):

And of course Hyped, there would be a lot of issues at first, but like in Spain (this is what I've heard, so don't lambast me) a person can drink at 15 or 16. Is there any more problems over there then there is over here where a person has to be 21? Like I said, at first there would be problems, but after a few years, it would calm down...

The legal drinking age in Spain is 18, as is here in Portugal. In most European countries it's 18, because 18 is the age for which you are considered an "adult" here.

A person can drink at earlier age anywhere in the world, because rules are always broken here and there.

But I personally don't believe drugs like heroine and cocaine should be legalized.

I will use an MMA example as to why:

www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_15174272?nclick_check=1

An MMA fighter who consumed magic mushrooms and murdered and disemboweled a friend while under the effect.

October 8, 2010  08:18 PM ET

Right now I am taking Jack3d ans Halo. and protein of course. The jack3d is really good for pre workout and the Halo is very good post workout.

October 8, 2010  10:25 PM ET

I like the different perspectives that arose here.

I have a slightly different take on things. I do think that Steroids should be legal, but I think also that there is a clear line between things like that and Heroin, which I feel should stay illegal.

I personally take different things now; Glucosamine Sulfate (for my bad knee), A general multivitamin, Emergen-C (post workout), and ovbiously Protein. I do like Whey Protein, but my best results have come with Muscle Milk.

I have never taken Steroids, nor will I probably ever. My biggest reason is that they are illegal. Beyond that they are expensive (I am the guy who uses the huge bag of whey from Sams Club instead of muscle milk because of price).

Being illegal means several things to me, beyond my moral beliefs, there is a huge risk that anything that is illegal and bought from the kind of people that sell that stuff could do be using dangerous filler and things of that sort.

But if they were legal, big if there but hypothetically, I would take them in a heartbeat. Number one, because of the effects that certain steroids have on recovery. For almost a year now I have been waiting for my knee to recover. If I was juicing, that time would be greatly less. I would have had my MMA debut by now for sure, and things would be a lot different for me.

I take Whey to improve my muscular function, I take Creatine to replace the amount that is used up during a workout to help my muscles recover faster and perform better, why not do the same with steroids, which do the same but more effectively?

I know that there are big problems with side effects, but if used in reasonable amounts and FDA checked and approved, I would be willing to take that risk for the rewards.

October 8, 2010  11:28 PM ET
QUOTE(#8):

With that logic in mind, shouldn't we legalize heroine and cocaine too?Adults know what's best for them, after all.

YES WE SHOULD!

Seriously. Prohibition is much more dangerous than abuse.

October 8, 2010  11:37 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

I will use an MMA example as to why:www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_15174272?nclick_check=1An MMA fighter who consumed magic mushrooms and murdered and disemboweled a friend while under the effect.

This man obviously did the wrong kind of shrooms.

Seriously though...anyone who disembowels someone "because of drugs"would've probably eventually disemboweled someone anyway. Drugs don't make murderers....but they sure do make good excuses for the behavior of murderers. "It wasn't ME that killed that guy...it was the crazy fungus I willfully ingested!" This is the perfect example of the lack of personal responsibility that is being accepted these days. I don't do any illicit drugs, personally, but I don't see anything wrong with adults using them. It's their own bodies and their own lives. This isn't the 1930s, where the doctor would recommend you take up smoking if you had weight or anxiety issues; people know this stuff is bad for you. If they want to take that chance, have fun as far as I'm concerned.
There are plenty of reasonable, non-violent people that do drugs; more than most people would believe, actually. You don't see them flipping out and playing jump rope with someone's entrails.

October 8, 2010  11:47 PM ET

Sorry for the rant. Back on track.

Realistically, there is no way to keep pro athletes clean. The more testing that's created, the more creative the cheats will be. The whole anti-doping system is a dog running in circles chasing it's tail. When the cheats are caught, they're allowed to make up excuses and get some, if not all, of their punishment removed. I'm looking at you, Sean Sherk...not to mention just about every Tour de France winner in the past 10 years.

What's the solution? I say allow everything. Level the playing field. If there are no restrictions, everyone has the same opportunity to use all the same things. These guys are professional athletes, but more importantly, they're grown men. They can make the decision: fame, riches, and glory vs. possible future health problems. Let them make up their minds and do what they want. As I stated before, the grim reality is that we'll NEVER actually have a "clean" sport; there will ALWAYS be cheats, and they will ALWAYS find a way around the system. Remember, Alastair Overeem has never failed a drug test for MMA. So why bother grinding our gears attempting to obtain something so obviously fruitless and impossible?

October 9, 2010  01:17 AM ET

Finally, someone who agrees with me! Thanks Dallas, I felt alone on this issue!!

Comment #20 has been removed
October 9, 2010  10:21 AM ET
QUOTE(#16):

This man obviously did the wrong kind of shrooms.

Again a Pro Wrestling example: Chris Benoit

And speaking specifically about the mushrooms, things got so out of control in a liberal country such as Holland that they even decided to ban them!

For example:

"In March 2007 a 17-year-old French girl who had consumed magic mushrooms died when she jumped off a bridge in the Dutch capital"

 
October 9, 2010  10:23 AM ET

Bottom line is that, whenever taking steroids, you're cutting your life short. You get gains now, suffer later.

And the reason why I stopped taking creatine is because some studies (although studies are still few and far between) show that it completely destroys the kidneys.

Coincidence or not, I suffered from kidney stones about 4 months after beginning to take creatine.

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