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Just saying - shouldn't the president of a university set a role model and actually research his topic before opening his mouth?

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Originally posted by

Hopefully TCU and Wisconsin can settle this matter once and for all in the Rose Bowl.

Yep, but I do think Wisconsin is one of the hottest teams in the country right now, if not the hottest. I'm a little worried that those corn fed lineman will wear TCU out and by the second half be running the ball down our throat.

QUOTE:

Originally posted by

Hopefully TCU and Wisconsin can settle this matter once and for all in the Rose Bowl.

Nah, would rather see Gee and the BSU president in a steel cage match....

QUOTE(#3):

Originally posted 09:57 AM ET  11.30 by nextyearfrogs

Yep, but I do think Wisconsin is one of the hottest teams in the country right now, if not the hottest. I'm a little worried that those corn fed lineman will wear TCU out and by the second half be running the ball down our throat.

The whole key for TCU will be 3 and outs and Dalton. Get a few 3 and outs and get up on WISC and they become a much easier team to manage. A few long 1st half drives by WISC will lead to the sceario you mentioned.

QUOTE(#5):

Originally posted 09:59 AM ET  11.30 by Armpit

The whole key for TCU will be 3 and outs and Dalton. Get a few 3 and outs and get up on WISC and they become a much easier team to manage. A few long 1st half drives by WISC will lead to the sceario you mentioned.

I have not heard any further about Dalton's elbow. Have you?

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Originally posted by

The row is the conference schedule.

How can that be? Look at the SOS. Of course they're stupid when they don't fit Gordon Gee's model. Too bad TCU can't play that murderer's row of Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern and Minnesota.

QUOTE(#9):

Originally posted 11:10 AM ET  11.30 by nextyearfrogs

How can that be? Look at the SOS. Of course they're stupid when they don't fit Gordon Gee's model. Too bad TCU can't play that murderer's row of Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern and Minnesota.

Its not the big games, teams get up for the big games. If you are a great team in a good conference all those lower level teams are gunning for you. Difference is in the the power conferences those lower level teams have more talent than the lower levels teams in smaller conferences.

Illinois is no joke, Northwestern can hang, and play those teams in November in the rain in a trophy game, it takes on a little different feel.

I think TCU is a great team, but regardless of who you are getting through a conference like the Big 10 is more difficult than some may think...

QUOTE(#6):

Originally posted 10:06 AM ET  11.30 by nextyearfrogs

I have not heard any further about Dalton's elbow. Have you?

Have not seen it either on the TCU homepage as of yet.

QUOTE(#10):

Originally posted 01:06 PM ET  11.30 by 84

Its not the big games, teams get up for the big games. If you are a great team in a good conference all those lower level teams are gunning for you. Difference is in the the power conferences those lower level teams have more talent than the lower levels teams in smaller conferences.Illinois is no joke, Northwestern can hang, and play those teams in November in the rain in a trophy game, it takes on a little different feel. I think TCU is a great team, but regardless of who you are getting through a conference like the Big 10 is more difficult than some may think...

I agree that tOSU has a harder slog than does TCU year in and year out. This year the difference isn't all that great though-the one really good team tOSU played they lost to. Miami and Oregon State are about a wash, as is the rest of the non-WISC schedule tOSU played when stacked up against TCU's (bear in mind that SMU may be the C-USA CC and Baylor is going bowling).

IMHO the schedule difference is not great enough to support ranking a 1-loss tOSU above a no-loss TCU.

Also-given that SDSU had Missouri until the last minute and AFA lost to OU by 3 in Norman the talent gap may not be quite what you think it is-Northwestern for example is pretty much a classic WAC/MWC team from the 90's (good offense and average defense) and I don't think the academic standards in the B10 allow for quite the SAT-iffy on-field talent levels you find in the SEC.

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Originally posted by

Bias. It's what's for breakfast! And you had seconds smothered in blather!

The stats speak for themselves, Norka. No one made up the SOS data.

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Originally posted by

Bear in mind that Southern Methodist is 7-5, a decent team for sure but to use them to bolster your argument for TCU's SoS when you refer to a 6-5 Illinois team as a "cupcake" is ridiculous.I can't wait to see how Fresno State deals with the Big Ten "cupcake" this Friday.Bias. It's what's for breakfast! And you had seconds smothered in blather!

Never called Illinois a cupcake in this thread. In an earlier one I revised them from cupcake status to medium-quality team status in early OCT if memory serves.

And the FSU vs Illinois game should be a good indicator. Just bear in mind you are haning your hat on a Zook team.....

QUOTE(#14):

Originally posted 08:28 AM ET  12.01 by nextyearfrogs

The stats speak for themselves, Norka. No one made up the SOS data.

Actually someone did make them up, or at least the model that developed the SOS.

In a thread a couple of weeks ago, I pointed out the huge flaw in the Sagarin SOS model that makes it practically useless in determining SOS for a Top 10 team. It was such a gigantic flaw I don't see how anyone could dispute it, and no one did respond to my post.

My SOS model (made up by me) indicates that TCU's schedule is far inferior to most AQ teams including Ohio St and Wisconsin.

I am not saying that it is enough to make up for an extra loss, but it is close enough to that to at least make it arguable.

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Originally posted by

SEVEN of Ohio State's opponents are bowl eligible.

But that's just because they play in the Big 10. If they were in the MWC, no way :)

Not saying I necessarily agree with him, but Dr. Gee is crazy like a fox. He made his remarks right before Boise's game against the only other ranked team in the conference. If Boise dominated (like they normally do in conference), they proved him right: you can't judge Boise's success based upon the conference in which they reside-- it's just too weak for NCG consideration. If Boise lost, they proved him right: when everything is on the line late in the season, they can't hang with ranked teams and therefore shouldn't be a part of the NCG conversation. It was sheer genius.

The other thing that comes into play (rightly or wrongly) is history. People cut slack to teams like Ohio State, Alabama, Texas, USC, etc. that they don't cut Boise or TCU because nearly every year in every decade of football, these teams are ALWAYS part of the conversation. Boise and TCU have been for the last few years, but when you talk perennial powerhouses, you have to go back decades, and neither BSU or TCU is there... yet. Especially with the move to the Big East (which makes no sense geographically, but neither does a lot of the shuffling-- that's a different conversation altogether) and a guaranteed BCS berth, if they can maintain their level of performance, TCU will join the club. Boise has a tougher road, now that Utah has bolted for the PAC-10 and TCU for the Big East.

B-I-G,

Well TCU did win some "titles" in the 30's....

And you are right about BSU. The rest of the remaining/chaged MWC needs to keep doing well in bowls and a bit better than in 2010 in OOC games for BSU to get as close to a BCS title game again as they did this year.

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Originally posted by

In no way am I dismissing anything about TCU. I don't need to bash other teams or conferences to support my own favorites. SEVEN of Ohio State's opponents are bowl eligible.

Of those seven how many would you have TCU losing to though? Iowa and WISC are the only tOSU opponents this year that I think would be a hard game for the Frogs.

Don't discount Illinois. They yo-yo, and you're never really sure which team is going to show up... But besides, them, Wisconsin, and Iowa, most of the other conference teams are young, so yeah, TCU would have had their way with them THIS year. (And I'll be honest: I was completely disappointed in Miami. It's not like they don't have talent, for crying out loud.)

But it's not just about this year, and I think that's the point Dr. Gee was trying to make. Almost any given year in the Big Ten, there are 2-3 Top Ten teams and another 4-6 hovering in the middle that would give anyone a run for their money on any given Saturday. You just can't say that about the MWC or the WAC.

And seven decades gap in being part of the national conversation is a big leap, Armpit... I mean, our 3 decade dry spell between national championships was bad, but at least for part of that we were still going to big bowl games...

QUOTE(#22):

Originally posted 12:19 PM ET  12.01 by buck-i-O-6's-girl

Don't discount Illinois. They yo-yo, and you're never really sure which team is going to show up... But besides, them, Wisconsin, and Iowa, most of the other conference teams are young, so yeah, TCU would have had their way with them THIS year. (And I'll be honest: I was completely disappointed in Miami. It's not like they don't have talent, for crying out loud.)But it's not just about this year, and I think that's the point Dr. Gee was trying to make. Almost any given year in the Big Ten, there are 2-3 Top Ten teams and another 4-6 hovering in the middle that would give anyone a run for their money on any given Saturday. You just can't say that about the MWC or the WAC.And seven decades gap in being part of the national conversation is a big leap, Armpit... I mean, our 3 decade dry spell between national championships was bad, but at least for part of that we were still going to big bowl games...

Agree with that, but my point is that the difference is not so great that a one loss major conference team should always get the nod over a no-loss non-AQ team. Until this year that had been the case.

Not a TCU history buff, but I think they did go to the cotton a number of times in the 70's thru the early 90's, back when it was considered a bigger bowl then it is now. I guess the B10 way of looking at TCU's history is they are more or less like MSU historically-good every once in a while but overshadowed by the bigger teams in the SWC in most seasons....

Don't get me wrong. I like TCU and Gary Patterson. I like Boise State and Chris Petersen. And I do think they'd be competitive in just about any conference in the country. But I also think that until they have the opportunity to prove themselves dominant in a conference with better teams, nearly everyone (not just the Big Ten) will view them like a Michigan State: an historically good big conference team that pulls out an amazing season every few years but TYPICALLY falls in the middle of the pack.

And for this reason (because perception is reality), it was likely (until this year) that they would not get the nod over a one loss AQ. SHOULD that be the case? Probably not. But "would", "could", and "should" are completely different arguments.

QUOTE:

Originally posted by

I don't know, but since you like hypotheticals so much, how many Big Ten teams would have gone undefeated with TCU's schedule this year? And how many MWC teams would have gone 11-1 or better with Ohio State' schedule this year?

At least Boise plays the top teams in the MWC. Can the Big Ten champ say the same ie team that plays in the Rose Bowl? The Big Ten has the worse schedule of any of the major conferences. Not all the teams play each other and there is no Conference Championship game, YET.

After the Big Ten championship game the OSU president can pop off about other conference SOS.