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I'm not sure Turner is the problem. The slow starts maybe the biggest problem. You know your team better than I do. I'm just adding something that I see though.

You should blame this whole season on your GM

Hire Wade Phillips ................again..........as the DC..................

Your GM refused to sign your best WR and let it get personal in negotiations. That should be unacceptable to management.

QUOTE(#2):

Originally posted 08:53 PM ET  12.26 by BGDUECE

You should blame this whole season on your GM

the gm is a large part of the problem but he is too entrenched now to pry loose. I think a better disciplinarian than Norv is what is needed.

As a sports fan my entire life I have never understood why people always want to fire the coach/manager. After all they are not physically involved in the game. But after watching the Chargers in recent years I don't know where else to put the blame. WAY too much talent on this team to not go deep into the playoffs. Oh, they didn't even make the playoffs. Bye Norv.

There are so many issues it's hard to know where to start. But Norv would be as good a place as any, I guess. And as for AJ, that's another complex issue. That guy has to take blame also.

They lost three games due to special teams play. Steve Crosby was known as one of the best special teams coaches in the NFL, until this year. What changed? It's all about the personnel. The loss of Kassim Osgood to the Jaguars in free agency was huge. He was voted All Pro and is a three time Pro Bowl selection as a coverage specialist. And then they lost 17 year long snapper David Binn to a season ending hammy injury, one of the best long snappers in NFL history. Add to that some poor performances by new special teamers, and voila your STs suck. Crosby righted the STs ship for the most part, but way too late. Punts kicked to the center of the field with lower than average hang time, interior line punt blocking breakdowns, failure to stay in the tackling lanes allowing returners to get outside, poor STs tackling, etc.

So, back to Norv. I think players respect him, but not enough to refrain from straying from the rules. I think they know he's soft as a disciplinarian, and like children they push his boundaries.

With some exceptions, the players do not seem to understand that one breakdown in any phase will affect the team's success. They don't seem to be disciplined enough (VJ, for instance) to be ready for everything, always. The defense was caught standing in a huddle yesterday while Palmer was snapping the ball. By the time Cason realized the ball had been snapped, Simpson was on his third step past him - touchdown. Really, Antoine Cason? He's a pretty good young cover corner, but that was so idiotic I had to scream at the tv. The entire D was guilty on that play. Is Ron Rivera responsible, in addition to the players and Norv? Yes. Were they prepared for a quick snap? It wasn't even a very quick snap. They saw the Bengals break the huddle, and they reacted slowly to break the D huddle and spread out. There's just no excuse. You don't see the Steelers D making mistakes like that. The Bolts played Indy a few games ago, and you know they had to have practiced being ready for a quick snap over and over again, because Manning didn't burn them on it.

Bottom line, Norv must take responsibility for his team consistently lacking discipline. If there was a way to keep Norv as OC and play caller, I'd do it in a heartbeat. He has built an offense which is among the best. But it takes a TEAM to win games. And Norv is sorely lacking as an NFL team leader and team builder.



Is "aw, shucks" the only answer you have, Norv? How about the challenge of the Bengals' TD catch in the first half? Stupid, and cost a timeout that they really needed

I agree that the GM has made this mess in San Diego. Great player acquistion guy...but the day the GM fired Marty after going 14-2, the Chargers have not been the same team.

AJ is a stubborn SOB, to a big fault. But I would still keep that guy around because of his ability to spot talent. It's hard to know exactly what the answer is. Do the Chargers need a guy like Coughlin to beat people up and wear them down? I'm not convinced of that. Do they need a disciplinarian who will game plan so conservatively that the O will be held back? No. They need a guy that will have the team playing with the same high intensity, EVERY play, EVERY game, whether Game 1 or Game 16. Someone level headed, who the players will 100% respect. Someone who is not irrational and does not coach in the media. Someone who is a man of his word, who means business, and who game plans thoroughly and expects and demands the highest performance and no mental breakdowns. And someone who will matter of factly take action to correct breakdowns that do occur and instill discipline. Someone creative who prepares his players for all possibilities.

Bottom line is, if your team wins SBs, you are (usually) considered a genius. If your team makes repeat errors or has players who lack self control or who are not committed to the team first, you will lose and you will not be a genius. Norv is an offensive genius. But he's not a head coaching genius. If he was, the Chargers would not start every year 2-5, digging themselves such a deep hole from which to try to crawl out of.

I don't even know who I would want as a HC - anyone available seems to have some issues, some history of a lacking success.

The best coach in the world can't win a SB with an untalented team. And that's what SD is right now. An untalented team. With MANY talented players and a couple of talented coaches. Find the guy that turns those talented players and coaches, as well as those new ones needed to fill the gaps left by those who need to go, into a talented "team," and that's the guy I want.

And while we're at it, new local ownership and a new stadium so the Bolts stay in SD, please Santa.

Lay off AJ, you can't say the Chargers are one of the most talented teams in the NFL and then go around and blame AJ.

It's not like the Chargers were completely lost without Vincent Jackson, Rivers has had an amazing year. Just look at what AJ did to counter act the loss of Jackson.

He got Tutu, who played better than anyone would expect a rookie FA to play.
He signed McMichael.
He got Patrick Crayton for a 7th round draft pick
And hell, even Kelly Washington has had a few moments in big situations.

This has nothing to do with AJ, he didn't give in to Jackson because he knew he'd have a great offense with or without him. And it's not like he refuses to work out contracts, just look at McNeil, he held out too and got a contract because he wised up quickly.

The Chargers problems are clearly due to discipline. Too many stupid turnovers and to many stupid mental mistakes.

Wake up SD, Norv has to go. After Martyball was jettisoned, then SD got the placater that AJ desired. Norv has been to several teams, and all with losing records. He was blessed with receiving a good team with talent in SD and then his Daddy AJ wouldn't let him spank the children. Anytime you have a over bearing GM or owner that runs day to day operations, and gets into spats in the media with players then the entire front office should leave. The management of the SD Chargers are setting it up to move to LA. If they leave, there will not be another team in SD again. The Spanos family is to blame after suffering through Bethard, and now AJ. SD will always have that memory of the drubbing they took from the 49ers in Super Bowl, and will be the closest they get to playing in one again.

I'm probably the only one, but Chargers fans don't panic. Norv will right the ship and he'll bring San Diego's 1st Super Bowl.

QUOTE(#12):

Originally posted 04:52 PM ET  12.27 by Confucius. Pujols.

Lay off AJ, you can't say the Chargers are one of the most talented teams in the NFL and then go around and blame AJ.It's not like the Chargers were completely lost without Vincent Jackson, Rivers has had an amazing year. Just look at what AJ did to counter act the loss of Jackson.He got Tutu, who played better than anyone would expect a rookie FA to play.He signed McMichael.He got Patrick Crayton for a 7th round draft pickAnd hell, even Kelly Washington has had a few moments in big situations.This has nothing to do with AJ, he didn't give in to Jackson because he knew he'd have a great offense with or without him. And it's not like he refuses to work out contracts, just look at McNeil, he held out too and got a contract because he wised up quickly.The Chargers problems are clearly due to discipline. Too many stupid turnovers and to many stupid mental mistakes.

I agree with most of that. AJ has delivered highly talented players every year since he's been in SD via trade, FA, and draft. There have been a few misses, but not too many when you consider some of the trades and acquisitions he's pulled off.

There will always be naysayers on the VJ topic, but with all of the issues and unrealistic demands that guy brought to the table AJ played hardball. It's a tough business. I wish it was handled differently on both ends (VJ's agent is a total tool). McNeill finally came correct and got his contract. Tutu was a practice squad player, McMichael is a gem, and Crayton filled in nicely. And Kelley Washington was ok, too, except for spiking the ball into the Cincy name tarp hanging over the wall after scoring a meaningless TD which I thought was classless.

See a common component? Right, Philip Rivers, who makes receivers good. When you run a route, turn around and the ball is heading for your chest it's a lot easier. There are a lot of good WRs in the NFL. When Rivers is throwing the ball, an above average receiver can look spectacular. How good is a receiver who nearly costs you a playoff game by throwing an official's flag? About as good as Marlon McCree who picked a Brady pass with 6 minutes left (and the lead) in the playoffs and neglected to protect the ball or get down in favor of potential personal glory, fumbling it back to the Pats. A few plays later, well, you know. Stuff like that happens to the Chargers over and over and over again.

QUOTE(#11):

Originally posted 03:40 PM ET  12.27 by -ripper-

AJ is a stubborn SOB, to a big fault. But I would still keep that guy around because of his ability to spot talent. It's hard to know exactly what the answer is. Do the Chargers need a guy like Coughlin to beat people up and wear them down? I'm not convinced of that. Do they need a disciplinarian who will game plan so conservatively that the O will be held back? No. They need a guy that will have the team playing with the same high intensity, EVERY play, EVERY game, whether Game 1 or Game 16. Someone level headed, who the players will 100% respect. Someone who is not irrational and does not coach in the media. Someone who is a man of his word, who means business, and who game plans thoroughly and expects and demands the highest performance and no mental breakdowns. And someone who will matter of factly take action to correct breakdowns that do occur and instill discipline. Someone creative who prepares his players for all possibilities. Bottom line is, if your team wins SBs, you are (usually) considered a genius. If your team makes repeat errors or has players who lack self control or who are not committed to the team first, you will lose and you will not be a genius. Norv is an offensive genius. But he's not a head coaching genius. If he was, the Chargers would not start every year 2-5, digging themselves such a deep hole from which to try to crawl out of. I don't even know who I would want as a HC - anyone available seems to have some issues, some history of a lacking success. The best coach in the world can't win a SB with an untalented team. And that's what SD is right now. An untalented team. With MANY talented players and a couple of talented coaches. Find the guy that turns those talented players and coaches, as well as those new ones needed to fill the gaps left by those who need to go, into a talented "team," and that's the guy I want. And while we're at it, new local ownership and a new stadium so the Bolts stay in SD, please Santa.

Ron Rivera?

The Chargers have gone the way of the Cowboys. Overrated and underachieving. Each year we hear how they are both are favorites for the Super Bowl. Both teams need to get rid of their General Managers before they will actually begin to live up to the hype. Norv Turner also needs to go the way of Wade Phillips. They both would be good Assistant coaches in San Fransico.

QUOTE(#14):

Originally posted 06:44 PM ET  12.27 by Total Package

I'm probably the only one, but Chargers fans don't panic. Norv will right the ship and he'll bring San Diego's 1st Super Bowl.

Were we watching the same game on Sunday?

Norv Turner is a good OC but an average HC.

Spanos, who has been in charge of the franchise since father Alex handed him the wheel in 1994, says head coach Norv Turner and General Manager A.J. Smith will return in 2011.

Spanos: No changes at top for Chargers