MMA  > General MMA  > "He Shoots, He Bores"???
June 21, 2011, 10:48 AM
That was one of the headlines on ESPN's MMA website after Strikeforce Dallas.

Am I the only one disgusted by this? Werdum was creating constant action on Saturday night, throwing huge striking combinations and shooting for takedowns and trying to pull guard.

Is this a boring tactic? Is this really more boring than Clay Guida having absolutely no intention of finishing Anthony Pettis? Not attempting to pass guard, do damage or submit? The same writer applauded Guida for his "frenetic pace".

This is so upsetting to me. I think we saw a terrific and exciting Heavyweight tilt on Saturday, with Werdum throwing caution to the wind, landing tons of strikes and constantly trying to finish that fight.

Yet he is chastised while a wrestler who seeks purely to win on points, exploiting the terrible judging in our sport, is praised for his "work rate".
June 21, 2011  11:35 AM ET

While I think it is a horrible description by the writer, its not entirely untrue.... Werdums tactics were horrible... Its the same actions Maia tried on the Spider... Did he really think Overeem would make the same mistake Fedor made? Fedor fell for the fake stagger and dove in for the kill... I am sure Overeem watched the replays of that fight and knew better.

June 21, 2011  11:37 AM ET

"Yet he is chastised while a wrestler who seeks purely to win on points, exploiting the terrible judging in our sport, is praised for his "work rate".

I know I ahve never praised any of the wrestlers for anything in MMA... I think they all know the flaws in the judging and use it to their advantage. I think the rules and the judges need to be replaced ASAP!!!!

June 21, 2011  11:59 AM ET

I agree Clouis, overall I thought it was a good event. I think Werdum did lose by his terrible game plan in which we all know Dana and the fans dont like to see. I was hoping Overeen would have knocked out Werdum.

June 21, 2011  12:34 PM ET
QUOTE:

That was one of the headlines on ESPN's MMA website after Strikeforce Dallas. Am I the only one disgusted by this? Werdum was creating constant action on Saturday night, throwing huge striking combinations and shooting for takedowns and trying to pull guard. Is this a boring tactic? Is this really more boring than Clay Guida having absolutely no intention of finishing Anthony Pettis? Not attempting to pass guard, do damage or submit? The same writer applauded Guida for his "frenetic pace".This is so upsetting to me. I think we saw a terrific and exciting Heavyweight tilt on Saturday, with Werdum throwing caution to the wind, landing tons of strikes and constantly trying to finish that fight. Yet he is chastised while a wrestler who seeks purely to win on points, exploiting the terrible judging in our sport, is praised for his "work rate".

What's the complaint? Guida destroyed Pettis....there wasn't a lot of visible damage but Pettis didn't do a damn thing in that fight but get hit and get taken down...well...Pettis DID get mount for a moment...until it was reversed and the fight ended with Guida going for a rear naked choke with both hooks in...

Werdum did the same thing Leites and Maia tried against Silva...why does Silva catch crap for it if Overeem is excused from the same situation?

June 21, 2011  12:35 PM ET

don't forget that most of Guida's power shots from top position hit Pettis in the gut...no visual evidence of damage but it certainly slowed Pettis to a point that he wasn't doing anything but existing in that cage...

June 21, 2011  12:45 PM ET
QUOTE(#4):

What's the complaint? Guida destroyed Pettis....there wasn't a lot of visible damage but Pettis didn't do a damn thing in that fight but get hit and get taken down...well...Pettis DID get mount for a moment...until it was reversed and the fight ended with Guida going for a rear naked choke with both hooks in...

"Destroyed" is a big word for what Guida did to Pettis.

He ran away from the standup, and his only offense was a takedown. While on top, he was almost always in Pettis' wrist control, narrowly dodging triangles and would have almost certainly been tapped by an armbar in the second round.

I don't see all these devastating strikes slowing Pettis down, especially when Pettis had some of his best moments (the two dominant positions) at the very end of the fight.

June 21, 2011  01:18 PM ET

Check out the fight metric stats. http://tinyurl.com/6h2zeqe

June 21, 2011  01:30 PM ET
QUOTE(#7):

Check out the fight metric stats. http://tinyurl.com/6h2zeqe

FightMetric is not a source to make decisions from. What they call strikes is a joke. Just look at Cormier-Monson. What percentage of the strikes they called power strikes really landed? (Cormier won, but he didn't land 70+ power strikes).

June 21, 2011  01:45 PM ET
QUOTE(#6):

"Destroyed" is a big word for what Guida did to Pettis.He ran away from the standup, and his only offense was a takedown. While on top, he was almost always in Pettis' wrist control, narrowly dodging triangles and would have almost certainly been tapped by an armbar in the second round.I don't see all these devastating strikes slowing Pettis down, especially when Pettis had some of his best moments (the two dominant positions) at the very end of the fight.

I call it "destroyed" when Guida attacked for the entire fight and Pettis did nothing but defend. What was Pettis doing while Guida was taking him down? hitting the ground it what Pettis was doing...
I saw Pettis throwing up "submission attempts" as a defense to make Guida play it a little more safe and not wail away on him from the top....those submission attempts were not serious and never offensive....Pettis did prevent Guida from having good range for strikes to the head but Guida just kept pounding away at Pettis' gut...
Once on the bottom, Pettis would put a foot up like he was going for a triangle but it was just to keep Guida at a distance constantly watching out for a submission. It was kinda like throwing a weak jab to keep an opponent at distance...doesn't do any damage but still holds an opponent off a bit...Pettis ultimately was getting hit any time he didn't have control of Guida's wrists...Pettis certainly offered nothing in the way of his own offense...Guida controlled almost every moment from bell to bell...

June 21, 2011  10:41 PM ET

Werdum embarassed himself completely.
It was an awful main event - and both Overeem and Werdum have admitted it and owned up to it. I didn't read the ESPN article, but every site pretty much says the main event was a letdown. .

Werdum wasn't creating constant action. He wasn't mixing it up and trying to pull guard when appropriate.
Instead, he was repeatedly flopping - and then even more frustratingly he'd take foreeeeeeeever each time to stand up when the ref instructed him to.

The Pettis-Guida fight was equally boring, but not as embarassing for the sport - and the fighters involved didn't have as high expectations.
Guida executed a smart gameplan (for his skillset) but did no real damage. Pettis was defensive and mainly went for neutralization techniques (eg. wrist control) more than trying to sweep, effectively sub, or get back up.

Comment #11 has been removed
June 22, 2011  04:57 AM ET

Really guys? Embarrassed himself? I need to see the fight again, but I saw Werdum recklessly trying to implement his gameplan.

He was running in with strikes, not pitter patter punches but effective punches that put Alistair on **** street in the third. He knew the best position for him was on the ground. The difference between him an Guida is that he was wanted to put himself in a position to win, not cower.

I really need to see the fight again, maybe I remember it wrong.

June 22, 2011  06:03 AM ET
QUOTE(#12):

Really guys? Embarrassed himself? I need to see the fight again, but I saw Werdum recklessly trying to implement his gameplan. He was running in with strikes, not pitter patter punches but effective punches that put Alistair on **** street in the third. He knew the best position for him was on the ground. The difference between him an Guida is that he was wanted to put himself in a position to win, not cower. I really need to see the fight again, maybe I remember it wrong.

What I remember of the fight is Werdum trying everything he could to get Overeem to the ground. Even laying on his back waving for Overeem to come get him, even after the ref was telling him to stand up.

June 22, 2011  07:20 AM ET

What we saw was a guy that ran out of options.

June 22, 2011  09:04 AM ET
QUOTE(#11):

Agree completely. Werdum embarrassed himself and the sport with that pathetic display. Not once did he try to finish the fight. He threw a bunch of shots because he was trying to take Overeem down. Werdum might have landed more punches, but none of them were with the attempt to finish Reem. He was trying to setup a takedown with them. Overeem landed the harder, cleaner shots. Just a bad fight overall.The Guida vs Pettis fight was not the greatest fight either, even though I won a cool $440 on Guida. To say Guida destroyed Pettis is just pure stupidity. But what else would one expect from a stupid person, right.

I agree, if you cant strike and only depend on the ground game will not get any fighter far in MMA. Werdum couldnt take down Overeen and burned out of gas trying the attempts. I thought Werdum was better than that but once again proved why I never thought he was a legit contender in MMA. I bet Fedor feels really stupid that he fell for Werdum antics.

June 22, 2011  09:07 AM ET
QUOTE(#12):

Really guys? Embarrassed himself? I need to see the fight again, but I saw Werdum recklessly trying to implement his gameplan. He was running in with strikes, not pitter patter punches but effective punches that put Alistair on **** street in the third. He knew the best position for him was on the ground. The difference between him an Guida is that he was wanted to put himself in a position to win, not cower. I really need to see the fight again, maybe I remember it wrong.

His game plan failed when he couldnt take him down and started to flop. Once he started to flop, seemed as he was desperate to take the fight to the ground and was scared to trade with Overeen.

June 22, 2011  12:22 PM ET

He didn't try to pull guard (flop) because his gameplan failed. It was his gameplan.

Did Nog pull guard on Coleman and Goodridge because his gameplan was failing? Or was he just aware that he was vastly better than them on the ground.

I was impressed by Werdums performance. He showed no quarter to one of the strongest heavyweights who has developed into the best kickboxer in the world. He was not afraid to stand and trade, and in at least one of the rounds he definitely won.

June 22, 2011  12:29 PM ET

Also, for what it is worth, compustrike scored the fight 29-28 Werdum, as did Josh Gross.

June 22, 2011  12:30 PM ET
QUOTE(#17):

He didn't try to pull guard (flop) because his gameplan failed. It was his gameplan. Did Nog pull guard on Coleman and Goodridge because his gameplan was failing? Or was he just aware that he was vastly better than them on the ground. I was impressed by Werdums performance. He showed no quarter to one of the strongest heavyweights who has developed into the best kickboxer in the world. He was not afraid to stand and trade, and in at least one of the rounds he definitely won.

He won the 3rd round which was the only one he did any striking in and overeem was exhausted in (don't know why he was since he did so little in the fight). The first 2 rounds just reminded me of the Aoki/Melendez laugher. He kept going for weak takedowns that reem basically just pushed him away from and then he'd lay on his back waving reem in. Or he'd try a kick, reem would grab it and again throw him away. I think you're remembering the 3rd round and thinking that's his the entire fight was.

 
June 22, 2011  12:33 PM ET
QUOTE(#18):

Also, for what it is worth, compustrike scored the fight 29-28 Werdum, as did Josh Gross.

Scratch that, it is fight metric who I saw had it for Werdum.

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