MMA  > General MMA  > Alistair Overeem and BJ Penn Overrated?
June 22, 2011, 07:02 PM
Is this true? Does Tim Marchman have a good point in his recent SI article or is he just trying to be controversial in order to get attention?


(Please stay away from bashing Tim, whether or not you like him as a WRITER is irrelevant. I want YOUR input on his ideas.)
June 23, 2011  01:52 AM ET

No it's not true in the least. Anyone that has followed MMA for any considerable time and knows anything about the sport knows that article has no point or relevancy. "is that even a word"...lol

I hope he is being controversial and trying to get interest in his article, because if not how could anyone with any knowledge of the sport take anything he ever says serious?

How can anyone in there right mind say these two guys are overrated???

While BJ isn't in consideration for P4P champ anymore he is still a great fighter. He just went the distance to a bigger fighter who also happens to be the number 2 ranked fighter at WW. Some would even say he won that fight by winning the 1st 2 rounds against Fitch with Fitch only winning 1 round... To call him overrated is just not smart or trying to cause up a stir.

As for Overeem, it makes even less sense. The guy hasn't lost in more than 4 years in MMA, and has been competing in Kick boxing matches as well. He has been in the ring more than any fighter over the last 2 or 3 years. How many times has the current HW champ in the UFC fought in the last 2 years? Better yet how many times has he defended his belt?
Is overeem the greatest fighter out there, probably not, but to say he is overrated is....well you asked nicely not to bash Tim so I will refrain!!!

June 23, 2011  03:37 AM ET

I don't know if you guys saw his follow up that came out earlier today (I've never seen him write 2 MMA articles in such a short span of time) but he got so much hate mail over what he wrote last week that he had to do a response lol. He doesnt admit he was wrong about what he wrote (and tries to use Saturdays fight to support what he said about Overeem) but simply says he used the wrong words to describe Overeem and might have been too harsh, and with Penn says he should have been more clear in that he was a good LW and that it was just Penns forays into WW that he was being critical of him.

June 23, 2011  03:39 AM ET

And Cyne, where have you been? havent seen you on these boards in a long time

June 23, 2011  07:39 AM ET

He was absolutely correct. I've been saying it for a long time now and it's nice to see someone else figure it out too....homer fans have selective memories and tend to ignore the failures of their favorite fighter while putting a bit too much emphasis on the few accomplishments they have. They like to remember that Penn held the LW title for over 2 years but they like to ignore that he put the LW division on hold for 15 months of that while he got destroyed by GSP. And once he put the LW title on the line again, he lost it pretty quick and then lost the rematch even worse. They like to remember that he beat Matt Hughes but ignore the fact that Hughes beat him down when they were both in their prime...

June 23, 2011  07:54 AM ET
QUOTE(#1):

As for Overeem, it makes even less sense. The guy hasn't lost in more than 4 years in MMA, and has been competing in Kick boxing matches as well. He has been in the ring more than any fighter over the last 2 or 3 years. How many times has the current HW champ in the UFC fought in the last 2 years? Better yet how many times has he defended his belt?Is overeem the greatest fighter out there, probably not, but to say he is overrated is....well you asked nicely not to bash Tim so I will refrain!!!

The guy hasn't lost because of the same reason as Fedor....he isn't fighting anyone notable...Duffee, Rodgers, Fuijita, Thompson, Sylvester, Goodridge, Hunt, Tae-Hyun, and Buentello is not exactly an impressive resume....prior to that streak, he has a LOT of losses. He is incredibly overrated.

June 23, 2011  09:58 AM ET
QUOTE(#10):

The guy hasn't lost because of the same reason as Fedor....he isn't fighting anyone notable...Duffee, Rodgers, Fuijita, Thompson, Sylvester, Goodridge, Hunt, Tae-Hyun, and Buentello is not exactly an impressive resume....prior to that streak, he has a LOT of losses. He is incredibly overrated.

I agree on the comparison with Fedor and Overeen but the only difference is Overeen fights way more than Fedor. Since Pride Fedor has only fought once or twice a year while Overeen is staying very active and busy with his fight game. Had Fedor fought the same amount as Overeen he would have had more losses.

June 23, 2011  10:39 AM ET

If Overeem is THAT good, all of his titles and accomplishments in small promotions against nobodies while "staying active" mean no more than it would mean for Usain Bolt to stay active by racing in the special olympics....
However, if he is finding that what he faces in those promotions are "fair competition" then he isn't that good...

June 23, 2011  11:09 AM ET
QUOTE(#12):

If Overeem is THAT good, all of his titles and accomplishments in small promotions against nobodies while "staying active" mean no more than it would mean for Usain Bolt to stay active by racing in the special olympics....However, if he is finding that what he faces in those promotions are "fair competition" then he isn't that good...

I wouldnt go that far and compare it with the special Olympics BUT he is a good fighter. Its still hard to travel around the world and win fights. But he does like to fight and isnt pretending to be the greatest of all time and only fight cans once a year. I am not saying he is a great fighter and dont think he can beat Cain or even JDS but he could put up a great fight against those guys.

June 23, 2011  12:15 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

If Overeem is THAT good, all of his titles and accomplishments in small promotions against nobodies while "staying active" mean no more than it would mean for Usain Bolt to stay active by racing in the special olympics....However, if he is finding that what he faces in those promotions are "fair competition" then he isn't that good...

Who is he suppossed to be fighting Loki?

Cain? Whos biggest win has been against a very over rated Brock and an over the hill Nog.

I am not going to sit here and pretend he is the greatest fighter alive, but he does fight the best his promotion has to offer. He tried to fight Fedor, Fedors camp balked. So he faced the guy who submitted Fedor. Now he will face Big foot Silva who only has 2 losses on his record. Hopefully after that he will fight who the UFC has to offer.

June 23, 2011  12:18 PM ET
QUOTE(#10):

The guy hasn't lost because of the same reason as Fedor....he isn't fighting anyone notable...Duffee, Rodgers, Fuijita, Thompson, Sylvester, Goodridge, Hunt, Tae-Hyun, and Buentello is not exactly an impressive resume....prior to that streak, he has a LOT of losses. He is incredibly overrated.

So his losses at LHW should reflect how he is as a HW? So we should say Randy Cotoure was over rated because he got beat up as a LHW?????

June 23, 2011  12:25 PM ET

Brock Lesnar, an OLD NOG, Ben Rothwell, Cheick Kongo, Denis Stojnic, Jake Obrien, Brian Morris....

That is exactly who Cain Velasquez has faced in his MMA career... Which one of those fights makes Cain a great MMA champion?

Since moving full time to HW Overeem has beaten every opponent he has faced in the 1st round except for 3 fights. 1 he lost, 1 he won in the 2nd and 1 he won by dec over Werdum.


Please explain who your top HW's are Loki so I can see this great list that doesn't include Overeem...

June 23, 2011  12:26 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

If Overeem is THAT good, all of his titles and accomplishments in small promotions against nobodies while "staying active" mean no more than it would mean for Usain Bolt to stay active by racing in the special olympics....However, if he is finding that what he faces in those promotions are "fair competition" then he isn't that good...

Who said that he thought they were "fair competition"? He has disposed of all of them very quickly minus the Werdum fight.

Comment #18 has been removed
June 23, 2011  01:55 PM ET
QUOTE(#15):

So we should say Randy Cotoure was over rated because he got beat up as a LHW?????

Yes, I think so.

Comment #20 has been removed
June 23, 2011  02:08 PM ET

Oh, Jim is just bitter because another MMA analyst wrote a big article saying EXACTLY what I have been telling him about his beloved Penn...basically, this guy just put Jim in his place and it's grating on Jim's fragile ego...

June 23, 2011  02:25 PM ET
QUOTE(#20):

I think he should stay. The board is more active now than it's been in a while. Besides, it wouldn't be as fun if we were all walking MMA encyclopedias who all got along all of the time.

he's trying to get rid of me so he doesn't have to deal with someone constantly calling him out on his BS and his being just plain wrong all of the time.

June 23, 2011  02:50 PM ET
QUOTE(#16):

Brock Lesnar, an OLD NOG, Ben Rothwell, Cheick Kongo, Denis Stojnic, Jake Obrien, Brian Morris....That is exactly who Cain Velasquez has faced in his MMA career... Which one of those fights makes Cain a great MMA champion?Since moving full time to HW Overeem has beaten every opponent he has faced in the 1st round except for 3 fights. 1 he lost, 1 he won in the 2nd and 1 he won by dec over Werdum.Please explain who your top HW's are Loki so I can see this great list that doesn't include Overeem...

UFC's top 5 are all better than Overeem and I agree with MANY people on here who think that Big Foot is likely to beat him in the semi's, and if not Bigfoot, Barnett will beat him in the finals. Of course, his last loss was to Kharitonov which is the other guy still in the tourney so I'd put Overeem at 3rd or 4th, maybe even 5th best in SF....he MIGHT be a top 10 HW but his resume doesn't support it...just like Fedor, instead of a list of "who's who" in MMA, his resume is more like a list of "who's that?" in MMA...

June 23, 2011  02:57 PM ET

oh, and you are definately underrating Lesnar....yeah, he can't take a punch but that doesn't always matter....there is NO ONE that can survive him once he is on top...so, any fight he is in could go either way depending on whether he gets a good takedown...Mir is a BJJ expert for all the good that did him on the ground, Carwin was finished the moment Lesnar got him down...its not like he has a long resume to draw from but everyone he got on top of lost except Mir when the ref mistakenly stood them up in the first fight that Lesnar was dominating...

 
June 23, 2011  03:00 PM ET

I really don't know how anyone can objectively call either fighter overrated. Looking at Penn's entire mma record the vast majority of his losses have come to naturallly bigger fighters with only losses to truly small fighters in Pulver and Edgar. Even though BJ has slipped a bit he is still the most dominant lightweight the UFC has ever had so how can that be overrated. Overeem hasn't had many fights in the cage recently but has still fought and beat elite K-1 fighters. He just beat Werdum who beat Fedor and Bigfoot so how does that make him overrated. Between Overeem, JDS, and Cain I would go with Overeem.

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