NCAAF  > General NCAAF  > FBS and the NCAA: Is it Worse or just Too much Tech to "Get Away With It"
August 17, 2011, 01:35 PM
OK, no we can add the Canes to the growing 'offenders' list. I haven't been keeping count, but since the Trojan verdict came down it seems like not a week passes w/o a new mug shot on the wall.

My question is this: are the violations any worse or wide spread than they were in the days that SMU got the Death Penalty, or has technology gotten to the point where noone gets away with it. It may be years later, as in the Bush case, or come almost immediately as in TOSU, but some email, credit card receipt, or picture on a phone is gonna give you away.

What are your thoughts?
August 17, 2011  01:39 PM ET

Nerds on the internet need to stop being jealous of college athletes and keep their keyboards to themselves. Nothing was wrong with players getting extras, its how its been for years. Then again, I'm biased.

August 17, 2011  01:51 PM ET

From 2006 thru 2009 we knew of Reggie Bush's violations yet it appeared the NCAA wasn't going to do anything about it. I think an attitude of permissiveness took hold at some schools that got a wake-up call when the NCAA finally lowered the boom on USC. The rash of violations from this off-season could be a result of that attitude.

48 hours ago we had no clue about Miami. My hunch is there are a number of other programs (5-25) with similar situations that may never come to light. Like the crime rate, for every prosecution there are many more that get away with it.

August 17, 2011  10:26 PM ET
QUOTE:

My question is this: are the violations any worse or wide spread than they were in the days that SMU got the Death Penalty, or has technology gotten to the point where noone gets away with it.

There have been college sports scandals for about as long as there have been college sports.
Some I can think of that are from 15 years ago or more:

When Ga Tech beat Cumberland 238-0, it was payback because the Ga Tech coach (some guy named Heisman) was upset that Cumberland had played semi-pro ringers against Ga Tech in baseball the previous spring.

College basketball nearly collapsed in the 1950s due to point shaving scandals. Gamblers were paying players to throw games. Kentucky got a version of the death penalty for it in 1952. There have been multiple hoops point shaving scandals since: Boston College in the 1970s, Tulane in the 1980s, ASU and Northwestern in the 1990s.

Bill Walton has stated that if the NCAA had ever bothered to investigate, UCLA's 1960s-70s teams had violations due to booster Sam Gilbert--cars, clothes and cash--that went on for over a decade. Walton has no axe to grind--he was a close friend of coach Wooden's.

Miami's 1985 sanctions were due to a school employee teaching players how to commit criminal fraud by getting bogus Pell grants. The employee received a kickback and used the money to feed his coke habit. There was also a player admitted to the school with a 200 on his SAT verbal, which means the guy didn't answer a single question on the test.

The SMU death penalty came from the school having an actual payroll to pay player's salaries, and the money was administered by the school's board of governors.

Michigan's Fab5 basketball players in the 1990s earned $600 grand in "loans" from a booster.

Comment #4 has been removed
Comment #5 has been removed
August 18, 2011  12:40 AM ET
QUOTE(#4):

While what you say may be true, I also recall reading when I was a kid that all of Cumberland's regular football team boycotted the game for some reason and the coach had to scramble to put together a team to take the field at the last minute

That's true. Cumberland had disbanded its football team before the season started. Heisman demanded they play anyway or pay a hefty no show penalty. Cumberland's team consisted of 11 guys who barely understood the game and Heisman pummeled them for 60 minutes out of spite.

August 18, 2011  01:06 AM ET
QUOTE(#6):

Cumberland's team consisted of 11 guys who barely understood the game and Heisman pummeled them for 60 minutes out of spite.

Judging by the lowlife character of the guy it's named for, the Downtown Athletic Club should give their award back to Bush. Using character as criteria of an award named for John Heisman is like giving a kicker's award named for Dick Butkus.

August 18, 2011  02:00 AM ET
QUOTE(#7):

Judging by the lowlife character of the guy it's named for, the Downtown Athletic Club should give their award back to Bush. Using character as criteria of an award named for John Heisman is like giving a kicker's award named for Dick Butkus.

Whuppin' an overmatched opponent in an OOC game is a college tradition!

August 18, 2011  02:03 AM ET

Up late, UB...

August 18, 2011  02:04 AM ET
QUOTE(#1):

Nerds on the internet need to stop being jealous of college athletes and keep their keyboards to themselves. Nothing was wrong with players getting extras, its how its been for years. Then again, I'm biased.

Nerds? Do you qualify?

August 18, 2011  12:49 PM ET
QUOTE(#3):

There have been college sports scandals for about as long as there have been college sports.

I totally agree, but it seems to me at least that the frequency has increased. You mentioned UCLA and IF the NCAA had investigated. They didn't to, and that's what I'm talking about.

Yahoo sports would be on a scandal in a dynasty like UCLA before the violations were committed. I think the NCAA would have loved TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY on the USC/Bush scandal, but the sports media investigative abilities wouldn't let them (IMO that's one of the reasons the NCAA was so harsh, they were embarrassed by it all. Just ask Tark the Shark, it's not good to embarrass the NCAA).

IMO for the most part the scandals/violations haven't changed much; tho the big money in CFB is like blood in the water to sharks, everyone including the Lloyd Lakes want their cut.

But todays TECHNOLOGY allows for no mistakes. Theres a Thayer Evans out there for every Cam Newton. To the point that a forum like this rarely talks football.

August 18, 2011  04:23 PM ET
QUOTE(#11):

I totally agree, but it seems to me at least that the frequency has increased.

Number of major NCAA violations in men's basketball or football by decade
1950s 72*
1960s 62
1970s 95
1980s 124
1990s 88
2000s 97
* extrapolated, as NCAA database only goes back to 1953.

So current number of major infractions in revenue sports is comparable to the 1970s, and 20% fewer than the peak in the 1980s. Admittedly, it is increasing again, with 22 majors listed so far this decade (extrapolates to 110 for the 2010s)

The data also shows that things got cleaned up considerably in the 1990s. I would claim that the NCAA's willingness to impose TV bans and the death penalty in the late 1980s played a role.

I think you are correct that today's saturation media results in significantly more attention paid to these scandals and turns even relatively minor ones like the tat5 into a national obsession. (IMO, 25 years ago the whole tOSU saga would have made headlines only in the states of Ohio and Michigan, and merited a minor note in the Scorecard section of SI magazine nationally.)

But I think the amount of violations has been pretty constant for most of our adult lives--it just seems like the whole system is falling apart right now.

August 19, 2011  02:10 PM ET
QUOTE(#12):

Number of major NCAA violations in men's basketball or football by decade1950s 72*1960s 621970s 951980s 1241990s 882000s 97* extrapolated, as NCAA database only goes back to 1953.So current number of major infractions in revenue sports is comparable to the 1970s, and 20% fewer than the peak in the 1980s. Admittedly, it is increasing again, with 22 majors listed so far this decade (extrapolates to 110 for the 2010s)The data also shows that things got cleaned up considerably in the 1990s. I would claim that the NCAA's willingness to impose TV bans and the death penalty in the late 1980s played a role.I think you are correct that today's saturation media results in significantly more attention paid to these scandals and turns even relatively minor ones like the tat5 into a national obsession. (IMO, 25 years ago the whole tOSU saga would have made headlines only in the states of Ohio and Michigan, and merited a minor note in the Scorecard section of SI magazine nationally.) But I think the amount of violations has been pretty constant for most of our adult lives--it just seems like the whole system is falling apart right now.

Again, I agree with you to a point: the numbe of 'penalties called' doesn't appear to have grown at an alarming rate.

But the booster handing out $$$.$$ to the star is a bit like a holding penalty; It COULD get flagged on just about every down, but mostly it's just the flagrant ones that get called. My point is that it is really hard to know how many AREN'T getting called. Especially when the NCAA is not only judge, jury and executioner, they are also the cop/DA/Grand Jury that decides who will even get investgated.

JMO

August 19, 2011  09:45 PM ET
QUOTE(#8):

Whuppin' an overmatched opponent in an OOC game is a SEC tradition!

FIFY

August 19, 2011  10:03 PM ET
QUOTE(#14):

FIFY

I was going to say that originally, then realized all you southern homers would think I meant BCS games!

 
August 19, 2011  10:11 PM ET
QUOTE(#1):

Nerds on the internet need to stop being jealous of college athletes and keep their keyboards to themselves. Nothing was wrong with players getting extras, its how its been for years. Then again, I'm biased.

Jocks need to stop being jealous of nerds who invent things like the internet.

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