Have mercy, people! High schools need to wake up

2008-10-15T07:52:25-04:00

2008-10-13T23:21:49-04:00

2008-10-15T07:52:25-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/582/816/thumb/DSCN1203.jpg 4 NC

HuffyLegend

Wendell 583376

45 Mr. Markazi, Thanks for investing the time. Last thoughts... "If anything, the way both coaches handled the situation furthers my point that after a certain time there's no need to continue with a game when you are playing reserves, kneeling on the ball and milking the clock. That's not football." How is "playing reserves...not football"? If you are the reserve, who has been in the program, going to off-season workouts, lifting, running, practicing, etc, etc. wouldn't you want your opportunity to play? How else will those players get better? It actually is HARDER to be a reserve on a dominant team because you LOSE plays due to a running clock. So now you'll refer to them playing as "not football?" I agree that taking knees is a bit odd. As a coach I wouldn't do it. I'd keep running base plays. 3054951

2008-10-14T19:46:00-04:00

kevwinns24

San Diego 583671

44 I remember our Homecoming game sophomore year, the refs called the game by the mid-3rd quarter we were up 57-7 because of the 'mercy rule' and I was ticked off because I had rushed for 139 yds and 2 TDs, but at least the CIF called it. Florida football is harsh. 91-0 is just insanity. Note to Florida HS Athletics: INCLUDE FOOTBALL MERCY RULE! 3052564

2008-10-14T15:42:03-04:00

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Bourbon:TheAnswer

Titletown 577083

43 Why do you feel it is so detrimental for a group of young men to get beat 91-0? It's a football game! It's not the end of the world, they weren't just told by the GOD of football that there's not a chance they could ever play at the next level. Is there some statistic you know of that shows a certain percentage of high school athletes, who get beat by 50+ points in a sporting event it, turn out to have severe depression or become suicidal? It's a team game, no one player is going to lose self esteem off of a game like this, because luckily in a 91-0 beatdown, you can't point the finger at one player. You make the point that by having a mercy rule, atleast the players can walk off the field with some dignity, instead of having to play out a game that they can't win. And that the rule could be 35 or 50 points? How much dignity can you walk off the field with following a 50+ point loss? Is it a great deal more than if you were to get beat by 90? The true dignity you walk off the field with, whether you lose by 50 or win by 1, is knowing that you have put in everything you can and left it all on the field. If you're an athlete, you don't worry about how the other team will feel after the blowout is over. Thats not your problem, its not the coach's problem whose team is kickin tail, and its not the kids problem who are the ones getting beat up on. After the game the losing team should say,"hey they came out and got the job done and we didn't" and if there is anymore reason to look into to this problem, its that some schools just shouldn't field a team. You don't insert a rule just because one team excells and another doesn't. The playing field in sports won't always be level, but niether is the playing field of life. And that is the lesson being learned 3050050

2008-10-14T14:52:37-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/396/7/thumb/markazi_arash.jpg 118 CA

Arash Markazi

Los Angeles 3987

42 There are some great comments here and thoughtful arguments made for both sides. A quick point for HuffyLegend and others who somehow think I was calling out Naples or Beechcroft for what happened. I wasn't. They did nothing wrong. I was calling out the high school athletic associations that have for years let such games go on without doing a thing about it. The fact is Naples did what they did while playing reserves and running only 31 plays while Beechcroft took knees on plays in the fourth quarter. If anything, the way both coaches handled the situation furthers my point that after a certain time there's no need to continue with a game when you are playing reserves, kneeling on the ball and milking the clock. That's not football. That's almost like using the mercy rule on the field. I'm sure the winning coaches wanted the game to be over as quickly as the losing coach. I don't understand the argument that these kids are somehow learning a lesson by getting beat by nearly 100 points when the other team is clearly taking mercy on them already. The fact that Naples and Beechcroft won by nearly a 100 points playing reserves and taking knees in the second half is like getting beat up in a fight by a guy on his knees with one hand tied behind his back. What's the lesson to be gained by a team clearly taking pity on you and still getting blown out? Wouldn't you rather have your opponent give it their best and not hold anything back? Then again, would there still be a lesson learned if they played their starters and called their normal plays from start to finish and won 200-0? Again, these aren't professional athletes, a point lost on people like Azlib who refer to these teenage reserves as "scrubs." These are high school kids who don't need to be on the other end of a 91-0 beating to learn anything they didn't already know when they were down 50-0. No fighter ever likes for a referee to call a match, they all want to keep going until they get knocked unconscious, but there should come a point where an official should step in and say enough is enough, especially if one fighter, after landing 91 punches to his opponents' 0, gets on his knees and pretends to throw punches with one hand tied behind his back instead of actually fighting until the time ran out. That is basically what Naples and Beechcroft were forced to do. To me, that is more embarresing than actually having a game called early. 3049075

2008-10-14T13:46:09-04:00

Azlib

Safford 583504

41 The fact of the matter is that several states, Arizona, being one of them that do have a mercy rule. Usually it is in the lower levels of play. In Arizona it is in 2-A, the smallest 11 man level, and 1-A, the eight man level. In Arizona the rule is that if at some point in the second half team A ends up more than 42 points ahead than team B then the game is called. Frankly, the rule is unpopular with many coaches there. Why? Here is the thing. Naples did everything right. The general rule of thumb is that the first team should play the entire first half no matter what. At that point, in the third and fourth quarters, the team that is winning wide should put the scrubs in. Scrubs that need some sort of playing experience. If the other team can't stop the scrubs then they can go hang themselves. It is beyond the pale only if the winning team keeps the 1st defense and offense beyond a certain point just to pad the stats. To answer my earlier question of why many coaches in Arizona 2-A and 1-A don't like the mercy rule is that their second and third teamers, if they are winning, do not get needed real game experience. Another question for Arash Markazi? Did you ever actually play football or some sort of other organized team sport? Or are you a typical sports journalist. Some wannabe who would have had a hard time hoisting the water bottles into a huddle during a time out. That is a serious question. I did play, for ten years through middle school, high school, and a Division III college in Ohio. I played in 100 games, started 90, and was on the losing end of 75, many of which were blowouts. Why do I point that out? Because I would have been offended as hell if some ref came in pulled the plug. Because when you step out on that field you do know, even if you are favored, that there is a chance you will get your behind kicked. You also know that you want to play the game, no matter the outcome, no matter even if you are getting your butt kicked. The folks who want to play the "oh, its so embarassing" to win, or lose by that much really don't understand a thing. Its obvious that you don't either. 3047939

2008-10-14T13:31:06-04:00

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Bourbon:TheAnswer

Titletown 577083

40 I am not in favor at all for a mercy rule in football. Aslong as the team whoopin tail is running the ball after the victory is in hand, and is has subsituted his 2nd and 3rd teamers (assuming the school has enough personel to do that) you can't help it if the other team can't score and can't stop you. But I totally disagree that it would hender the recruiting of a player (running back) because he would have to settle for 3 touchdowns instead of the 8 he could score against an obviously inferior defense. Great stats against a terrible defense means absolutely nothing. And every high power D-1 program has area scouts all over the country who know the competition. And the scout wouldn't even mention the guys name if he ran for 400 yards in a game against a bad D, cause all it would prove is that the kid can run 400 yards. You earn scholarships by playing elite competition and showing you can put up the same stats night in and night out, not by one blowup performance against a team that can't defend themselves. 3047653

2008-10-14T12:45:15-04:00

Steelersfan40

Silver Spring 583434

38 As a coach, I have been on both sides of these types of games. As a winner, I put my 2nd and 3rd teamers in when I see things getting out of hand. I also dumb the game down and do only the basics. BUT it is unfair for me to tell my 2nd and 3rd teamers who never play to get in the game and NOT play. As a loser, I am fine as long as the other coach is not purposefully running it up. If he doing the basics and my team just cannot stop it, then that is more of my team's issue. I believe that the running clock is the best solution. To me it is more himuliating to pull a team off the field because you think they cannot compete then it is to allow them to finish. Dignity is NOT quitting or forcing them to quit. 3046919

2008-10-14T12:41:39-04:00

Luke Fleeman

Visalia 482215

37 I would be embarassed to have the Mercy rule called. I would rather the team put in its backups and us get some scores on the board, and feel a little better, rather than just losing any chance to make it up. Also, many D-1 schools only look at stats initially in scouting, and these kind of blowouts can help kids get noticed. A mercy rule robs them of the chance to get noticed by a good program and get a scholarship. Also, there are already divisions based on school size and location. This isn't happening constantly. And what is merciful? 35 points? 50? 3046852

2008-10-14T11:23:34-04:00

186

pwmaverick

Euless 41738

36 Was Naples doing anything more on offense than running up the middle after the first quarter? Was the defense blitzing? Before condemning the kids and staff, someone might want to find out if they weren't doing everything possible to hold the score down, short of deliberately falling down. 3045900

2008-10-14T08:58:43-04:00

kp2575

Watertown 583327

23 Ugh... It would be nice if some of the people commenting actually read the article. Naples didn't even start some of their first stringers. Mercy rules in Baseball and Softball make sense because it protects the arms of the pitchers involved. For other sports I don't know if it does. When you have a talent level so different between teams there is very little you can do. What would have been the proper way for Naples to handle it? Take a knee every single play of the second half? That is kind of insulting. I think the one thing that is actually upsetting about all of this isn't the coaches actions (he did nothing wrong). But the fact that parents were e-mailing him complaining that their kid didn't play or play enough to pad his stats. 3043975

2008-10-14T11:16:23-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/947/53/thumb/facepalm_homer.jpg 447 FL

Flags of Dawn

Gainesville 95053

I think the one thing that is actually upsetting about all of this isn't the coaches actions (he did nothing wrong). But the fact that parents were e-mailing him complaining that their kid didn't play or play enough to pad his stats.

35 I agree with you here, this is the one thing that stood out the most to me. I work with a guy who is the D-line coach for a high school here and I asked him what his thoughts were on this whole thing. It was pretty shameful to hear about how psychotic these kids' parents are. The verbal and email threats from parents these guys receive for not letting their kids run up their stats is ridiculous. Stats are impressive, but if they're concerned about their kids getting noticed by college recruiters, they really need to understand that the recruiting process is a whole lot more than rushing yards per game or whatever. 3045862

There is no mercy rule in Florida high school football. This much was apparent after Estero High lost to Naples High by a score of 91-0 on Friday night. Florida isn't alone of course. There's no mercy rule in football anywhere. Whether it is in Florida or Ohio, where Beechcroft beat Centennial 96-0 on Friday. Outside of baseball and softball in some states, the mercy rule is about as nonexistent as the compassion of high school athletic associations which have watched these blowouts go on for years in football and basketball without adjusting the rules to prevent them from happening. There's nothing wrong with blowouts in professional sports (although I'd guess you can count on one hand the number of games that have been won by 90 points). If players are being paid to play and fans are paying to watch, anything goes. The million dollar contracts most players enjoy should be able to ease the pain of anyone on the losing team. Same goes for college sports, where most athletes are given full-ride scholarships and fans are paying to watch pro prospects play.  High school sports, however, are different. These kids, who range in age from 14-18, are simply playing for the love of the sport, in between deciding who to take to prom and studying for the SAT. They are the last true student-athletes and they are often playing in front of no more than few dozen of their peers, friends and family. They're not playing to get embarrassed and thrown out to slaughter in front of their classmates so they can be further ridiculed on Monday. Why should a team losing 70-0 at halftime be forced to continue to play a game that was already decided in the first quarter? There are few things in sports better than watching a great comeback, but there are few things in life worse than seeing helpless kids get humiliated and picked on. There comes a point in any blowout where the losing team stops thinking about a comeback and starts hoping the clock runs out quickly.      Some states actually institute a running clock when one team is ahead by a certain number of points, but that does nothing more than encourage the leading team to score quicker and basically proves to the losing team that the game is in hand and they are on the court or field for no other reason than to serve as the superior team's punching bag until game is officially over. Girls' basketball has actually been the most ruthless in terms of blowouts, with the talent of teams being unevenly distributed between a handful of powerhouses and everyone else. In 1990, Lisa Leslie famously scored 101 points in the first half for Morningside High in Inglewood, Calif. The score at halftime of that game was 102-24 and Leslie was unable to surpass the girls' national record, which was 105 points, because the opposing coach refused to let his team play the second half. Not only was that coach right in not sending his team out for the second half, but the fact is, he shouldn't even have had to make that call. The game should have been called a long time ago. High school athletic associations across the country need to institute a "golden rule" in football and basketball beginning immediately. If a team, at any point in a game, leads by 50 or more points, the game should be stopped. This way, kids who are losing 50-0 or 64-14, can leave the game with some semblance of dignity and not have to watch the game deteriorate into a video game score that often times leaves the winning team feeling almost as mortified as the losing team. At some point, even the school bully starts to feel bad for the kid he's beating up after about the 96th punch to the face without a comeback.  The fact that high school athletic associations have been letting this go on for years without doing a thing to prevent it or at least curtail it is a disgrace. Their first priority should be towards protecting the integrity of the game and the self-esteem of the kids they are responsible for, not updating their record books with lopsided scores and inflated point totals that do nothing but bring shame upon the purest form of sports we have left. 14001 http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/396/7/thumb/markazi_arash.jpg 118 CA

Arash Markazi

Los Angeles 3987