Against the Grain, Week 12

2009-09-09T16:11:20-04:00

2008-11-23T20:49:24-05:00

2008-11-25T14:57:41-05:00

147

OhioDore

Columbus 97546

66 I'll just be Glad when the Pats don't have the easiest Schedule in the NFL for once, then I'd like to see what this Cassel kid can do. I can't wait for the Steelers match-up. If Cassel tears that one up, then I'll be a believer. 3447176

2008-11-25T10:10:20-05:00

willwillis.us

DFW 359113

63 sorry for the double post, the first submit errored out so I didn't realize it actually went through. 3441950

2008-11-25T10:06:38-05:00

willwillis.us

DFW 359113

62 I'm a big Kurt Warner fan, and while I do think he's in the MVP discussion, I don't know that he is necessarily the clear cut winner. What he's done for that moribund Arizona franchise has been remarkable, and having great receivers doesn't diminish that. You can argue that in a few ways. 1. Consider that the team desperately wanted Leinart to win the job, but he couldn't play well enough to win with the same guys Warner is playing with. 2. Look at a situation such as Dallas and what happened when Romo went out. A great offense ground to a halt because Brad Johnson and Brooks Bollinger couldn't get the ball to the receivers. That directly counters Perloff's point that even he (meaning "anyone") could put up big numbers throwing to Boldin and Fitzgerald. Even with great receivers you have to have a great QB to put up the kind of numbers the Arizona offense is getting week after week. 3. Warner has done this before. Arizona's offense clicks not just because of Boldin and Fitzgerald, but because Warner spreads the ball around and puts guys no one heard of before this season (Breaston, Urban) in position to make plays. One of the key weapons of the '99 Rams was journeyman WR Ricky Proehl, who really came into his own with Warner throwing to him. Few QBs are able to get to a 3rd receiver in a progression, let alone a 4th. 4. Arizona, unlike the "Greatest Show on Turf," has little to speak of in the way of a running game. So teams defense their passing game and tee off with pass rushing. Even with defenses playing the pass, the Arizona offense puts up numbers week after week. You can't seriously suggest just any old QB could accomplish the same thing. That all said, I'd probably go with Peyton Manning as well for MVP. But I don't have to tear down Warner to do it, I just think that with the overall circumstances that Manning has had the more valuable season. But honestly, any of the guys being considered this year are worthy, unlike a lot of years when just the big names are thrown around. 3441836

2008-11-25T10:04:22-05:00

willwillis.us

DFW 359113

61 I'm a big Kurt Warner fan, and while I do think he's in the MVP discussion, I don't know that he is necessarily the clear cut winner. What he's done for that moribund Arizona franchise has been remarkable, and having great receivers doesn't diminish that. You can argue that in a few ways. 1. Consider that the team desperately wanted Leinart to win the job, but he couldn't play well enough to win with the same guys Warner is playing with. 2. Look at a situation such as Dallas and what happened when Romo went out. A great offense ground to a halt because Brad Johnson and Brooks Bollinger couldn't get the ball to the receivers. That directly counters Perloff's point that even he (meaning "anyone") could put up big numbers throwing to Boldin and Fitzgerald. Even with great receivers you have to have a great QB to put up the kind of numbers the Arizona offense is getting week after week. 3. Warner has done this before. Arizona's offense clicks not just because of Boldin and Fitzgerald, but because Warner spreads the ball around and puts guys no one heard of before this season (Breaston, Urban) in position to make plays. One of the key weapons of the '99 Rams was journeyman WR Ricky Proehl, who really came into his own with Warner throwing to him. Few QBs are able to get to a 3rd receiver in a progression, let alone a 4th. 4. Arizona, unlike the "Greatest Show on Turf," has little to speak of in the way of a running game. So teams defense their passing game and tee off with pass rushing. Even with defenses playing the pass, the Arizona offense puts up numbers week after week. You can't seriously suggest just any old QB could accomplish the same thing. That all said, I'd probably go with Peyton Manning as well for MVP. But I don't have to tear down Warner to do it, I just think that with the overall circumstances that Manning has had the more valuable season. But honestly, any of the guys being considered this year are worthy, unlike a lot of years when just the big names are thrown around. 3441828

2008-11-25T09:51:37-05:00

lm109as

Saint Paul 320519

60 I like Matt Cassel, but he's no Tom Brady. Not even close. People forget about the 3 Superbowls that Brady won without Randy Moss and Wes Welker. Brady didn't have to throw for 400 yards because he had a good running game and a better defense. Point to think about, Gus Ferrote started 2 1/2 games with the Minnesota Vikings a few years ago and threw for 6 touchdowns and 1 int. He then signed to go somewhere else after the season and threw for more int than touchdowns. The difference was, he was throwing to Randy Moss in Minnesota. Another point, Scott Mitchell for the Detroit Lions. Great season filling in for Dan Marino in Miami, a average or below average QB in Detroit. Not saying that will happen with Cassel, but there is a reason he was a back-up in College. Easy to look good throwing to Randy. Ask Daunte Culpeper. I can't even remember who the receivers were (except Troy Brown) on the Patriots Superbowl winning teams. 3441540

2008-11-25T09:43:04-05:00

willwillis.us

DFW 359113

59 "Jack's Colon" - if you're going to argue that Warner's stats are swollen because of one game (NYJ), at least look at the stats first - http://www.nfl.com/players/kurtwarner/gamelogs?id=WAR492511 You could easily argue that the NYJ game was his worst of the year. Yeah he had his highest passing yards, but that also came with 57 attempts and a season high 3 picks and 5 sacks, his 3rd lowest passer rating on the season, and an abomination of 4 fumbles/3 lost. And regarding his "fumble issue," I think it is more perception than reality in a lot of cases. While the NYJ game obviously counts, to get a clear statistical picture it is common practice to throw out the high and low numbers (to eliminate exceptions) and average the rest. If you do that with Warner's season, you throw out one of his 7 games with zero fumbles along with the NYJ game, and you're left with 5 fumbles/3 lost in 11 games. And if you don't like that approach and want to count all of the numbers, then he's got 9 fumbles/6 lost in 12 games. By way of comparison, Tony Romo has 7 fumbles/4 lost in 8 games, Roethlisberger has 8/3 in 10 games, Favre has 9/2 in 11 games, and so on. Neither Manning fumbles much, but if you go down the line of starting QBs you'll find that they're the exception rather than the rule. Warner's fumble numbers aren't out of line with most other "star" QBs in the league. 3441455

2008-11-25T08:26:05-05:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/100/029/thumb/SteveGrogan.jpg 7989 NC

Remembers Grogan

Pinehurst 100328

58 Pats won't franchise cassell as that would place him about 4 million ahead of Brady for next year. Just don't think they will try that. Of course, it would be hard to keep him as well.. and letting him go for nothing would be an even bigger pain. But I think they will just work with their other two back-ups and get them ready to come in when needed. 3440526

2008-11-25T08:18:23-05:00

Orion26

New Orleans 203218

57 Ngata is one of the best RUGBY players in the country. If there is any doubt of his athletic ability you should try one HALF of rugby. The ball is in play and contested more in one half than in four hole football games. I assure you that he is one of the fittest athletes you will ever meet. Just because he can't run wind sprints like a corner back whose jersey looks like it came out of a tide commercial does not mean he is not fit. The amount of energy expended from a physics standpoint are astronomical. 3440430

2008-11-25T05:58:29-05:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/150/26/thumb/rob.jpg 26 NV

plumbloco

Las Vegas 15046

56 Sure, because the Rams had a couple of nobodies catching the ball. 3440262

2008-11-25T04:41:53-05:00

FURIOUSLOVE

Mission Viejo 575621

55 warner has the best history of making names out of nobody's...plug in decent wr's and he will make them look very good. 3440171

<div class="photo_container image_center" style="width: 615px;"> <div class="photo"><img src="http://img.fannation.com/upload/si_blog_post_images/ftr.cassel.getty.jpg" alt="Ftr" width="614" height="350" /></div> <div class="photo_attributes" style="text-align: left;">The Eagles shouldn't overspend on Matt Cassel, who is a product of the Patriots' offensive system. Doug Benc/Getty Images</div> </div>   A weekly NFL breakdown that heads in the opposite direction of your average pro football analysis. 1. The real quarterback controversy in Philadelphia has nothing to do with Donovan McNabb. The more important question is can Kevin Kolb do something this year to convince the Eagles not to overspend on Matt Cassel in the offseason. When Philadelphia owner Jeffrey Lurie, a Boston native, goes after Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels in the offseason, they're going to be tempted to sign the unrestricted free agent Cassel. Kolb was put in a tough situation taking over for McNabb in the second half against a Ravens defense that already had a taste for blood on Sunday. Kolb had one very impressive drive, but ruined it by throwing it straight to Baltimore's Ed Reed, who then ran 108 yards for a Ravens touchdown. One thing Kolb definitely needs to improve is his tackling skills. McNabb has done a much better job defending after throwing five interceptions in his last two games. 2. Andy Reid is undeniably a good coach. He brought the Eagles to four NFC Championship games. But since 2005, his Eagles dropped to 29-29-1. Philly fans are merciless. Reid's game-day decisions have not worked out well so far this season. His personnel decisions have been even worse. Reid would be better off regrouping and proving his offensive genius on a new team in the future. 3. Cassel's two straight 400-yard games will cause serious problems for a franchise next year. If there ever was a quarterback benefiting from a system, it's Cassel. This is the same team that rewrote the record book with Tom Brady last year. It took them a while, but the Pats have figured out how to take advantage of Cassel's running and short-passing skills. As a result of Cassel's inability to throw the ball downfield, Randy Moss has seen a lot of single coverage. Finally, the young QB learned just to throw the ball in the general area of Moss, resulting in three touchdowns. That's not going to work with almost any other NFL receiver. Cassel's skill set won't translate to the kind of losing team that is likely to offer him big money. That short-throwing game is great when you have perfectly coached players around you, including the remarkable Wes Welker. Let's see how Cassel would play when everything is falling apart around him on a team like Detroit. 4. One of the hot trends this season is the 350-pound defensive tackle dominating the line of scrimmage - Tennessee's Albert Haynesworth, Jets' Kris Jenkins, Ravens' Haloti Ngata, Browns' Shaun Rogers, Patriots' Vince Wilfork are good examples. Those guys have a huge impact, but at that size, can you trust them to stay on the field as the season continues? They don't appear to be in the kind of shape that makes them durable enough for a 16-game season and the playoffs. Both Haynseworth and Jenkins are bona fide MVP candidates. But they both showed signs of wearing down in the Titans-Jets game, looking winded and having trouble getting off the turf. Two weeks ago, the Patriots went to a no-huddle offense and let the play clock run down anyway, just to keep Jenkins in his stance longer. Jenkins had to sit out a big chunk of the second half and New England's offense took off. Look for other teams to try to find ways to neutralize the big men. 5. Three reasons Kurt Warner should not be MVP: • Most of his great games have come against the worst pass defenses in the league - Miami, San Francisco, Seattle and St. Louis. Every quarterback in the league has had their best games against those teams. • He's throwing the ball to Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald. I could throw 20 touchdowns to those guys. • He's still has the fumble problem that has plagued him throughout his career. His sixth lost fumble of the season was crucial in Arizona's 37-29 loss to the Giants. 6. Jack Del Rio deserves a mulligan in Jacksonville. No other team in the league could survive the kind of offensive line injuries the Jags had this season. The Jags should just quietly scrap through the rest of the season and start over in 2009. 7. The AFC West has become the WAC of the NFL. Teams you don't watch putting big scores on each other. How can the Broncos let the Raiders score 31 points? How can the Chiefs let the Bills score 54 points? How did Oakland score 31 points when JaMarcus Russell threw just 11 passes? I'm genuinely curious if anyone bothered to watch that game. 8. The Lions have two good chances to get a win - home games against Minnesota and New Orleans. What happened to all the parity in this league? There are no dynasties, but now we have the threat of a 16-0 and an 0-16 team every year. 9. The top four receivers on Sunday were Terrell Owens (213 yards), Steve Smith (168 yards), Isaac Bruce (125) and Randy Moss (125). That has a nice 2002-20005 throwback feel to it and bodes well for Marvin Harrison on Sunday Night Football. Where's Rod Smith? 10. Thanks NFL for your feast of garbage on Thanksgiving Day. Can't wait to see the Lions, Seahawks and Eagles stink up my flat screen on Thursday. How are those teams going to provide a good enough excuse for us to get away from our families?       http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/397/2/thumb/Perloff.jpg 684 NY

Andrew Perloff

New York 3992 26121   <div class="photo_container image_center" style="width: 615px;"> <div class="photo"><img src="http://img.fannation.com/upload/si_blog_post_images/ftr.cassel.getty.jpg" alt="Ftr" width="614" height="350" /></div> <div class="photo_attributes" style="text-align: left;">The Eagles shouldn't overspend on Matt Cassel, who is a product of the Patriots' offensive system. Doug Benc/Getty Images</div> </div>   A weekly NFL breakdown that heads in the opposite direction of your average pro football analysis. 1. The real quarterback controversy in Philadelphia has nothing to do with Donovan McNabb. The more important question is can Kevin Kolb do something this year to convince the Eagles not to overspend on Matt Cassel in the offseason. When Philadelphia owner Jeffrey Lurie, a Boston native, goes after Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels in the offseason, they're going to be tempted to sign the unrestricted free agent Cassel. Kolb was put in a tough situation taking over for McNabb in the second half against a Ravens defense that already had a taste for blood on Sunday. Kolb had one very impressive drive, but ruined it by throwing it straight to Baltimore's Ed Reed, who then ran 108 yards for a Ravens touchdown. One thing Kolb definitely needs to improve is his tackling skills. McNabb has done a much better job defending after throwing five interceptions in his last two games. 2. Andy Reid is undeniably a good coach. He brought the Eagles to four NFC Championship games. But since 2005, his Eagles dropped to 29-29-1. Philly fans are merciless. Reid's game-day decisions have not worked out well so far this season. His personnel decisions have been even worse. Reid would be better off regrouping and proving his offensive genius on a new team in the future.