NCAA responds to FSU president's allegations

2009-09-11T18:26:02-04:00

2009-09-09T11:38:20-04:00

2009-09-11T11:18:08-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/141/893/thumb/ttwave.jpg 30 TX

SurfinTT

Sherman 142193

The idea of only penalizing a school only after the infraction is identified is false. If this were the policy teams across the nation would turn a blind eye to everything going on off the field. As long as they could show plausable deniability they could get away with anything.

36 I won't argue that there are not infractions that would merit punishing institutions retroactively. SMU's death penalty was for activities that were willfully violating NCAA rules by the faculty, coaches and players. What most of us are talking about here is this case in particular. Florida State did have players on the field that did break academic rules and therefore became ineligible. The how the rules are implemented in this case is where I have a problem. The wording is very specific about what the colleges need to do to cover their responsibilities to remain eligible. Florida State and the athletic program followed those instructions...and compared to many other schools prior offenses have been handling this has been handling this very above-board. The way the NCAA "Rules and Infractions Committee" have piled on with the level of punishments -in this case- is completely out of line with how other universities have been treated. No one is going to want to comply anymore if you don't have any reason to do so. The likely punishment is just as bad and the damage to the image of the university due to laying bare all the problems you had but corrected in a timely manner. I hate rules that punitively punish entire organizations for the trangressions of a few. Now the temptation is to follow the Miami or USC pattern and deny, deny, deny until the rules committee gets too busy with a university who "complied" with the rules. What the NCAA is seeming to indicate here is that the Faculty and Coaches need to threaten their students with some penalty worse than losing credits or expulsion (losing money) and not to let anybody play until every test is individually checked by a board to certify that this player did not cheat. After that certification, then they will have satisfied their responsibilities to the NCAA's "Committee on Infractions". 6825927

2009-09-11T18:26:02-04:00

dmm91

Federal Way 861730

I won't argue that there are not infractions that would merit punishing institutions retroactively. SMU's death penalty was for activities that were willfully violating NCAA rules by the faculty, coaches and players. What most of us are talking about here is this case in particular. Florida State did have players on the field that did break academic rules and therefore became ineligible. The how the rules are implemented in this case is where I have a problem. The wording is very specific about what the colleges need to do to cover their responsibilities to remain eligible. Florida State and the athletic program followed those instructions...and compared to many other schools prior offenses have been handling this has been handling this very above-board. The way the NCAA "Rules and Infractions Committee" have piled on with the level of punishments -in this case- is completely out of line with how other universities have been treated. No one is going to want to comply anymore if you don't have any reason to do so. The likely punishment is just as bad and the damage to the image of the university due to laying bare all the problems you had but corrected in a timely manner. I hate rules that punitively punish entire organizations for the trangressions of a few. Now the temptation is to follow the Miami or USC pattern and deny, deny, deny until the rules committee gets too busy with a university who "complied" with the rules. What the NCAA is seeming to indicate here is that the Faculty and Coaches need to threaten their students with some penalty worse than losing credits or expulsion (losing money) and not to let anybody play until every test is individually checked by a board to certify that this player did not cheat. After that certification, then they will have satisfied their responsibilities to the NCAA's "Committee on Infractions".

38 Not so at all. If FSU had been above board in self reporting and self correcting, the NCAA would not have had to impose further penalties. Remember, it was the female swimmer that had to blow the whistle on the majority of cheating infractions because she felt she was being used as a scape goat while the football team remained sacred cows. If the NCAA had felt FSU was being completely upfront and honest, and/or FSU could have come up with more evidence, the NCAA would either repeal or lessen the penalty, like they did in the Oklahoma case. So far, all we have is a lot of FSU whining from its President. 6834779

2009-09-11T17:12:41-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/616/247/thumb/ClarkTD.jpg 15 MD

JimmyVa

Aquasco 616887

37 Somehow, I can't help but think this is the NCAA's way of taking back those "joke" Samford wins that Bobby is so tightly clutching to try and take the All-Time wins title. Too bad Bobby. 6834005

2009-09-11T06:41:14-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/628/627/thumb/Alert.jpg 7 UT

Scott W.

Hill Afb 629267

35 The idea of only penalizing a school only after the infraction is identified is false. If this were the policy teams across the nation would turn a blind eye to everything going on off the field. As long as they could show plausable deniability they could get away with anything. The NCAA is not a police force. By imposing penalties that hurt the school, and the team, they force institutions to watch their own players. This is how it should be. The school should identify if their athletes are playing by the rules. If they do not then they are not being fair to the other students at the school who are paying for their educations. It is also important to note that individuals paid by FSU were directly involved in this specific cheating case. 6822133

2009-09-11T11:18:08-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/141/893/thumb/ttwave.jpg 30 TX

SurfinTT

Sherman 142193

2009-09-11T06:41:14-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/628/627/thumb/Alert.jpg 7 UT

Scott W.

Hill Afb 629267

2009-09-10T23:19:18-04:00

hate the ncaa

Las Vegas 860432

34 The NCAA and the United Nations are twin sisters run by the former Soviet Union leaders. Both are run by socialist thinking propagandist. Next the NCAA will be asking for a bail out or stimulus money. 6821071

2009-09-10T17:00:49-04:00

trybble1

Columbus 577197

33 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ QUOTE(#16): Originally posted 11:40 PM ET 09.09 by dwhitman32 Here's the problem with the NCAA, plain and simple. UF has 24 arrests the past 4 years (according to the Gainesville Sun), and FSU has half that and athletes who cheated on one online test. The result: Urban Meyer gets a raise and Bowden loses wins. The truth that no one wants to admit is that about 95% of college students cheat at some point. Now, FSU should have been punished, but make the punishments fit the crime. What's deserves a worse punishment, 1/4 of a team cheating once on an online test, or 1/4 team being arrested over a 4-year period? While it does wonders for the criminal defense industry in Alachua County, having that many players arrested is a crying shame. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Pointing fingers and saying "They are worse than we are!" is not a valid defense for any argument. You don't mention what the Gator players were arrested for (was it jay-walking or murder?), nor how many were ever convicted of anything at all. As for your math, it would be 24/400 (assuming 100 players on the team for each of 4 years you get "400 player years") which is 6%. Far be it from me to defend the Gators being from Ohio, but your argument has more holes than a pound of baby-swiss... 6818015

2009-09-10T15:30:42-04:00

Timbrwlf

Virginia Beach 842556

31 It is interesting to note that some want to deflect the issue by bringing up what others did. Sure others do lots of things, some good and some bad. Cheating is an offense that is considered an infraction of NCAA student-athlete rules and thus treated with penalties. Being arrested is not an infraction of any NCAA rule but may result in multiple problems for a student-athlete. The team may dismiss a player and he loses his scholarship. He may spend time performing community service. He may spend time in jail. Those are community standards that are broken not NCAA rules. The result may cause professional teams to question if they want a player or may significantly lower the level at which he is drafted. That has a major impact on their income for several years, The point is: don't confuse an infraction of NCAA rules with breaking the law. Both have their separate consequences and arrest may be the more severe for that person. Cheating has a greater impact on the team because, other players and coaches knew, or should have known, and stopped it immediately; not waited until caught in a big scandal and then say "I didn't know". Maybe that's the problem, they didnt know; but should have. 6816106

2009-09-10T16:35:07-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/573/851/thumb/images.jpg 22 FL

nole4life

Ocala 574331

It is interesting to note that some want to deflect the issue by bringing up what others did. Sure others do lots of things, some good and some bad. Cheating is an offense that is considered an infraction of NCAA student-athlete rules and thus treated with penalties. Being arrested is not an infraction of any NCAA rule but may result in multiple problems for a student-athlete. The team may dismiss a player and he loses his scholarship. He may spend time performing community service. He may spend time in jail. Those are community standards that are broken not NCAA rules. The result may cause professional teams to question if they want a player or may significantly lower the level at which he is drafted. That has a major impact on their income for several years, The point is: don't confuse an infraction of NCAA rules with breaking the law. Both have their separate consequences and arrest may be the more severe for that person. Cheating has a greater impact on the team because, other players and coaches knew, or should have known, and stopped it immediately; not waited until caught in a big scandal and then say "I didn't know". Maybe that's the problem, they didnt know; but should have.

32 They did know, that is why we self reported. It is impossible for coaches to report an infraction before the infraction happens!! Your logic is ridiculous. 6817616

2009-09-10T15:30:42-04:00

Timbrwlf

Virginia Beach 842556

2009-09-09T23:40:25-04:00

dwhitman32

Tampa 851507

16 Here's the problem with the NCAA, plain and simple. UF has 24 arrests the past 4 years (according to the Gainesville Sun), and FSU has half that and athletes who cheated on one online test. The result: Urban Meyer gets a raise and Bowden loses wins. The truth that no one wants to admit is that about 95% of college students cheat at some point. Now, FSU should have been punished, but make the punishments fit the crime. What's deserves a worse punishment, 1/4 of a team cheating once on an online test, or 1/4 team being arrested over a 4-year period? While it does wonders for the criminal defense industry in Alachua County, having that many players arrested is a crying shame. 6805049

2009-09-10T12:59:01-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/570/656/thumb/images.jpg 7 DC

Morphy

Washington 571136

Here's the problem with the NCAA, plain and simple. UF has 24 arrests the past 4 years (according to the Gainesville Sun), and FSU has half that and athletes who cheated on one online test. The result: Urban Meyer gets a raise and Bowden loses wins. The truth that no one wants to admit is that about 95% of college students cheat at some point. Now, FSU should have been punished, but make the punishments fit the crime. What's deserves a worse punishment, 1/4 of a team cheating once on an online test, or 1/4 team being arrested over a 4-year period? While it does wonders for the criminal defense industry in Alachua County, having that many players arrested is a crying shame.

30 @ dwhitmwn32: 24 arrests over 4 years equals 1/4 of the whole team over 4 years? Check your math. Meyer has kicked key players off the team for these infractions. When Bowden gets caught, he whines and moans and says "it wasn't my fault". Remember Free Shoes University ? The glass house is long gone and your arm sucks, so stop throwin' stones. 6812360

2009-09-09T23:40:25-04:00

dwhitman32

Tampa 851507

2009-09-10T12:58:18-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/570/656/thumb/images.jpg 7 DC

Morphy

Washington 571136

Here's the problem with the NCAA, plain and simple. UF has 24 arrests the past 4 years (according to the Gainesville Sun), and FSU has half that and athletes who cheated on one online test. @ dwhitmwn32: 24 arrests over 4 years equals 1/4 of the whole team over 4 years? Check your math. Meyer has kicked key players off the team for these infractions. When Bowden gets caught, he whines and moans and says "it wasn't my fault". Remember Free Shoes University ? The glass house is long gone and your arm sucks, so stop throwin' stones.

29 @ dwhitmwn32: 24 arrests over 4 years equals 1/4 of the whole team over 4 years? Check your math. Meyer has kicked key players off the team for these infractions. When Bowden gets caught, he whines and moans and says "it wasn't my fault". Remember Free Shoes University ? The glass house is long gone and your arm sucks, so stop throwin' stones. 6812340

The NCAA has fired back at Florida State president T.K. Wetherell, who on Monday complained that the association had <a href="http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/from_scrimmage/posts/76641-florida-state-president-ncaa-broke-deal">broken the terms of a mutually-agreed-upon deal </a>regarding the punishment for FSU's recent academic fraud case. In a message posted on its Web site, NCAA officials took issue with that statement and with Wetherell's assertion that the affected athletes gave up their right to due process when they accepted suspensions and began the reinstatement process. Here is the NCAA's statement, in its entirety. Recent media comments attributed to Florida State University President T.K. Wetherell asserting that the university and the NCAA had an agreement regarding school sanctions related to Florida State's academic fraud case are not true.  President Wetherell's statements confuse the process for administering institutional penalties with the process for reestablishing student-athlete eligibility.  These are two separate processes; there was no so-called "bait and switch" of the two. Decisions on school sanctions are not made by NCAA staff and are not negotiated.  Such decisions are made by the Committee on Infractions, an adjudicating body made up of representatives from member schools as well as independent legal experts. At no time was an agreement on university penalties discussed with the institution in this case or any other case. The NCAA staff and Florida State did discuss the process necessary for the student-athletes in question to regain their eligibility (student-athlete reinstatement).  Based on facts presented, the NCAA and FSU agreed to those student-athletes sitting out 30 percent of the next season's games if they came forward with information on the academic fraud allegations. President Wetherell's assertion that the student-athletes were asked to give up "due process" is also false.  In fact, the university was given specific instructions on how to appeal student-athlete reinstatement decisions.  Additionally, FSU was repeatedly reminded that the student-athlete reinstatement process was not connected in any way to penalties that may be assessed by the Committee on Infractions to Florida State for the academic fraud which took place at the institution. http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/245/899/thumb/staples_andy2.jpg 39

Andy Staples

246219 76862 The NCAA has fired back at Florida State president T.K. Wetherell, who on Monday complained that the association had <a href="/si_blogs/from_scrimmage/posts/76641-florida-state-president-ncaa-broke-deal">broken the terms of a mutually-agreed-upon deal </a>regarding the punishment for FSU's recent academic fraud case. In a message posted on its Web site, NCAA officials took issue with that statement and with Wetherell's assertion that the affected athletes gave up their right to due process when they accepted suspensions and began the reinstatement process. Here is the NCAA's statement, in its entirety.