Pollspeak: Polling with the Wolverines, Gators and two kinds of Cougars

2009-09-19T15:35:03-04:00

2009-09-16T00:56:36-04:00

2009-09-17T12:10:08-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/181/560/thumb/AL_A.bmp 81 AZ

BamaMan

Goodyear 181860

26 So who has actually beaten an SEC team in the National Championship game in the last few years... oh yeah, nobody. Until one of the other conferences actually steps up and beats the SEC champ, this "bias" will continue to exist. Yeah, teams from other conferences have beaten SEC teams during the season and in meaningless bowl games (and anything outside of the BCS Championship game is meaningless), but when it's been for all the marbles, everyone comes up short. I'm still waiting for USC to actually get out of the PAC 10 undefeated because if they do, they're pretty much guaranteed a slot in the BCS Championship game. Then if they face a team from the SEC (not necessarily guaranteed), we'll finally have someone who has the swagger that the SEC champs usually come in with. That will be a game I want to watch. Another thing to remember, any team can be beaten by another team. Just because you're in conference X doesn't mean someone can't come and knock you off from a "lesser" conference. You have to bring it every week. May the best team win and may the polls actually reflect that. Roll Tide! 6905333

2009-09-19T15:35:03-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/470/352/thumb/361px-E9a_USAF_CMSGT_svg.bmp 421

Chief Fireballs

470792

So who has actually beaten an SEC team in the National Championship game in the last few years... oh yeah, nobody. Until one of the other conferences actually steps up and beats the SEC champ, this "bias" will continue to exist. Yeah, teams from other conferences have beaten SEC teams during the season and in meaningless bowl games (and anything outside of the BCS Championship game is meaningless), but when it's been for all the marbles, everyone comes up short.I'm still waiting for USC to actually get out of the PAC 10 undefeated because if they do, they're pretty much guaranteed a slot in the BCS Championship game. Then if they face a team from the SEC (not necessarily guaranteed), we'll finally have someone who has the swagger that the SEC champs usually come in with. That will be a game I want to watch.Another thing to remember, any team can be beaten by another team. Just because you're in conference X doesn't mean someone can't come and knock you off from a "lesser" conference. You have to bring it every week. May the best team win and may the polls actually reflect that. Roll Tide!

97 I love it...the games the SEC wins are meaningful....the games they lose are meaningless. You should probably be quiet until Alabama wins the SEC before talking smack about anybody else. I can understand Florida talking, but didn't your mighty Tide (from the SEC) lose in a bowl recently to a non-BCS conference school? The SEC may be the best conference, but ya'all do lose outside conference about 50% of the time. 6935635

2009-09-18T17:52:05-04:00

dlgray84

Palm Bay 205162

96 You know, if a USC-Florida title does happen and Florida were to win that will only perpetuate the SEC Biased, I think a greater biased should be introduced: out of the 11 BCS Championships 7 have been by a southern team, 4 of those were from a Florida team 6930332

2009-09-18T17:29:29-04:00

GamedayLover

Miami Beach 868765

95 UlTroyFanII, USC is great, best of the 2000's, I'm not denying that. A couple teams including the Gators are right behind and possibly cathching up.....But why blame the system when your team loses to Stanford, Oregon State, Cal, Oregon... bad losses happen.... If the Gators would have been voted out becasue of a loss to Ole Miss, so be it, it's exactly what I thought after watching them lose.... that's the way of college football.... and yes even USC plays "patsies" Washington and Washington State combined record of 2-23 ... deosn't diminish all the great wins under the USC belt.... again, the way of College Football..... fingers crossed for USC vs UF.... wish it would've happened last year.... great match-up 6930156

2009-09-18T16:35:45-04:00

TrueThat

Atlanta 866008

to be fair here is floridas 2008 scheduleHawaii 7-7 Miami Fla7-6 Tennessee 5-7 Ole Miss 8-4 Arkansas 4-6 L.S.U. 7-5 Kentucky 6-6Georgia 9-3Vanderbilt 6-6South Carolina 7-5 The Citadel non fbs teamFlorida State 9-4Alabama 12-182 wins - 65 losses1 cupcake team

91 Ummm... a winning record with only 1 cupcake? Given that a lot of those teams got their wins against the weaker SEC schools I wouldn't say that the win/loss of their collective opponents is very impressive. It is decent however. Remember, the bottom half of the SEC was terrible last year but they play each other and thereby padded the wins of the top teams. Other SEC teams also often adopt a UF mentality and play 2 or more lower tier football team (thereby padding their stats). Ole Miss turned out to be pretty good? So when another conference has a consistent bottom dweller go - wow 8-4 - it is because they didn't play anybody but in the SEC they are pretty good and let's rank them real high the next season. Didn't Ole Miss lose to Wake Forest? Does Ole Miss have any signature wins over the past 10 years outside the SEC???? And that was UF's third toughest in conference opponent last year.... Hmmmm... Only in recent years (starting with Arkansas, from memory, playing USC a home/home) has the SEC scheduled interesting on-the-road match-ups out of conference. Usually only one or zero per team in any given year but at least (except for UF) that is something.... a definite improvement over the past few years. Of course, they lose as much as they win on these but at least they are playing them. If UT, Alabama, Arkansas, Miss St., Ole Miss, South Carolina, Georgia, etc. go on the road and play a decent opponent why doesn't UF? In 2007, UF played Troy, Western Kentucky and FIU. In 2006, UF played SMU, UCF and Western Carolina. In 2005, UF played La Tech, Wyoming... 2008 UF played Miami (in-state again but at least a quality team with athletes that could beat them) - it would be nice if they played them more often or just did what every other CFB team does and play tough OOC competition on the road, away from their fan base, etc.. 6929441

2009-09-18T17:27:00-04:00

dlgray84

Palm Bay 205162

Ummm... a winning record with only 1 cupcake?

94 I don't believe I ever made the argument that Florida played a super tough schedule, There schedule last year was a decent schedule, but I am sure there were other teams that had a tougher schedule, (of course how tough a schedule is, is all opinion anyways, besides comparing records of opponents and I suppose you could then go a step further and compare records of the opponents, opponents) My point was to try to compare Utah's schedule with Florida.... I think overall most would conclude Florida played a tougher schedule, Every good team in the country schedules and plays weaker opponents, it is all a part of their strategy to get to the top. As for scheduling out of state non-conference games, you won the argument, Florida doesn't do it, and until florida goes undefeated and gets left out of the title game, then they really don't have an incentive to do it, furthermore; as to why they don't go to say colorado or wyoming, or BYU, or ok st. well I am sure there is a money issue there, maybe they make more money playing at home then they would on the road, I have no facts to back that up but it would seem their tv contracts and 95,000 seats in ticket sales would bring in a lot more money then if they went and played at Wyoming or Byu etc... and yes Florida has a pretty weak schedule this year... well at least that is how it looks right now, 6930066

2009-09-18T17:26:17-04:00

Chuckn

Pensacola 869230

93 True That asked: "Does Ole Miss have any signature wins over the past 10 years outside the SEC????" I'm almost certain they beat up on the supposedly incredibly great Texas Tech last year in the Cotton Bowl. 6930050

2009-09-18T16:39:51-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/860/686/thumb/P_USC_Asleep.jpg 87 IA

UlTroyFanII

Cedar Rapids 861346

92 GDL "Please name me a team that doesn't play 2-3 "patsies". USC. They never schedule a non FBS team, always have 2 BCS conference teams for OOC, Notre Dame, which granted, hasn't been good of late, but it is a traditional rivalry that over the years has 2 ranked teams playing more often than not, and one other usually big name. Because you can't always know how good a team will be 5 or 10 years from now, all you can do is base it on their history. They have scheduled home and home games against Ohio State, Nebraska, Arkansas, Auburn, and Virginia Tech, and won them all. They usually have one non BCS, but still FBS, game per year. I the past it has been San Jose St., Fresno St, BYU, Hawaii, etc. Team that admittedly aren't BCS level year in and out, but also they are teams that can surprise the big boys on a given day. So basically, no non FBS patsies at all. BTW, lest you complain about PAC-10 competition, the conference teams aren't chosen, they're just on the scedule. And if you don't know without even thinking that Ohio State, OU, and Va Tech are better than Troy we shouldn't even be having this conversation. I am by no means saying that Florida isn't good, I am stating what should be obvious; they should be judged based on the same criteria that any other team is. But the truth is because of reputation and conference they aren't judged at all, if they win they get an auto bid. Not so for Utah or even a school that has more wins this decade than any other, USC. No, not necessarily as many championships, but then that's what I'm saying is wrong, isn't it? A team as consitantly good as USC, with similar won-loss records year in and out than the SEC/Big10/Big-12 teams in the BCS NC game, but yet the invites aren't forthcoming? What's wrong with this picture? 6929466

2009-09-18T14:37:56-04:00

dlgray84

Palm Bay 205162

86 to be fair here is floridas 2008 schedule Hawaii 7-7 Miami Fla7-6 Tennessee 5-7 Ole Miss 8-4 Arkansas 4-6 L.S.U. 7-5 Kentucky 6-6 Georgia 9-3 Vanderbilt 6-6 South Carolina 7-5 The Citadel non fbs team Florida State 9-4 Alabama 12-1 82 wins - 65 losses 1 cupcake team 6926501

2009-09-18T16:35:45-04:00

TrueThat

Atlanta 866008

2009-09-18T16:23:20-04:00

dlgray84

Palm Bay 205162

90 we have seen sec vs big 12 title game a couple of times, and sec vs big 10 title game(ohio st.) a couple of times..... I think the greatest game would be for USC and Florida to go undefeated and play in the title 6929219

2009-09-18T14:42:03-04:00

dlgray84

Palm Bay 205162

"pre-season polls'"

88 I wouldn't mind getting rid of the preseason polls and starting the first polls at say week 4. 6926655

2009-09-18T14:44:38-04:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/218/523/thumb/wvuscreensaver.jpg 49 CA

MotownRanger

Barstow 218823

I wouldn't mind getting rid of the preseason polls and starting the first polls at say week 4.

89 You have to start somewhere. Some can only get better and other can only get worse. 6926676

2009-09-18T14:38:02-04:00

GamedayLover

Miami Beach 868765

87 UlTroyFanII the Gator's haven't played anyone (though Troy did go to a bowl game). Yes, Troy and GSU (not sure if that's even their initials) stink, but who has anyone else played.... you look at victories based on polls but you have no idea if the ranking of OU, VT, Georgia, Tenn, were acurate.... All those teams might end up not being as good as the pre-season polls... The simple fact is that pre-season polls are the worst thing about college football.... The other simple fact is that the pre-season polls have been around for a very long time.... So what do you want voters to base the preseason polls on.... The Gators beat a great OU team last year and brought back it's entire defense and starting quarterback... Fine, after two sad games you want to rank Florida 15? 20? behind Georgia Tech? Nebraska? If that's how bad you think the Gators are, so be it. By mid-season Texas, USC, UF would most likely rise to the top and then you throw in Conference Championships and the best teams will be there for us to all argue who is #1 and #2..... I love it.... Sure Utah had an argument last year and Boise and Hawaii the year before that, but, again, there are over 120 teams and the "patsies" are 80 strong. Please name me a team that doesn't play 2-3 "patsies" Problem is teams like Utah, Boise, Hawaii play 6-8 "patsies" You write about a level playing field, but how is that level? It's a great sport with a few flaws, and for the time being the Gator are the beneficiary of those flaws. Why is it their fault they have taken full advantage of them.... Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma, Miami, FSU, LSU.... these are the teams that matter on the UF schedule.... USC, Texas, maybe those are a couple teams that match the final schedules and victiries the Gators have put up the past few years.... there aren't many UlTroyFanII.... 6926467

2009-09-18T14:42:03-04:00

dlgray84

Palm Bay 205162

"pre-season polls'"

88 I wouldn't mind getting rid of the preseason polls and starting the first polls at say week 4. 6926655

By Hugh Falk, <a href="http://www.pollspeak.com/" target="_blank">Pollspeak.com</a> This week Florida received two fewer first place AP votes than in the preseason, but gained three in the Coaches' poll. Florida is playing great and has done exactly what is expected. I understand why they could lose a couple votes in the AP… not for playing badly, but just because other teams have won tougher games at this point in the season. However, I'm not sure why they gained more votes in the Coaches' poll (and without ballots it's hard to guess). One vote likely came from whoever voted Oklahoma No. 1 in the preseason. The other two must have been swayed by Florida's gutsy wins over Charleston Southern and Troy. It's really too soon to put much faith in computer rankings, but for what it's worth, three of the four BCS computers that currently release rankings have USC ranked higher than Florida and two of them have the <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=17&v=375&t1=105&w=3&r=T" target="_blank">Trojans ranked No. 1</a>. Both human polls kept the Men of Troy at No. 3 this week. I was only mildly surprised that they didn't move up to number No. 2 after a road win at then No. 7/8 Ohio State. In happier news for the Big 10, <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=17&v=375&t1=55&w=3&r=T" target="_blank">Michigan </a>cracks the AP Top 25 for the first time since the final poll of 2007. The Wolverines are also on the cusp of the Coaches' top 25, and with another victory, they should jump into that poll as well.  Welcome back to the party, Wolverines; try to stay longer than Notre Dame and FSU could manage. Looking at the AP Poll, which is the only one that releases all of its ballots, at least until SI.com can force the Coaches' to release them, we see that <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=18&t1=0&t2=0&v=20&w=3&r=V" target="_blank">Doug Lesmerises</a> is once again the most extreme voter, and that trend will likely continue as long as he uses his "crazy" <a href="/si_blogs/from_scrimmage/posts/77161-pollspeak-why-one-voter-ranked-byu-ahead-of-florida" target="_blank">method of giving wins more weight than a team's reputation.</a>   Not only does he have BYU over Florida like last week … but now he ranks Houston over the Gators as well. <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=18&t1=0&t2=0&v=35&w=3&r=V" target="_blank"> John Wilner</a> of the San Jose Mercury News is probably the next-closest voter in terms of ideology. He ranks three of the same teams over Florida (Alabama, BYU and USC) with only Houston missing. This isn't the only school of thought, however. Here are the <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=18&t1=16&t2=75&v=35&w=3&r=T&o1=-diff" target="_blank">three people</a> still voting Oklahoma over BYU. The Cougars are undefeated and just beat the Sooners last week, but you wouldn't know it by looking at <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=18&t1=16&t2=75&v=54&w=3&r=V" target="_blank">Rich Kaipust</a> of the Omaha World-Herald's ballot. He ranks them furthest apart with Oklahoma No. 8 and BYU No. 15. Likewise, there are now <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=18&t1=32&t2=76&v=35&w=3&r=T&o1=diff" target="_blank">six people</a> voting Georgia over Oklahoma State. This is a little more understandable since the Cowboys just lost to lowly, undefeated Houston. However, Georgia and Oklahoma State now have the same record (1-1) and the Cowboys just beat the Bulldogs 24-10 the previous week. One of the few AP voter guidelines is "Pay attention to head-to-head results." I know it doesn't say "slavishly follow head-to-head results," but when two teams have the same record and just played each other last week, you'd think the choice is clear. It was clear for a majority of the voters, but certainly not for John Hunt of the Oregonian, who ranked them furthest apart -- Georgia No. 14 and Oklahoma State No. 24. Finally there are <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=18&t1=35&t2=76&v=0&w=3&r=T&o1=-diff" target="_blank">25 (out of 60) AP Voters </a>who still rank Oklahoma State over Houston. That's nearly half, including five people who ranked Oklahoma State No. 14 or better but left Houston unranked. The most drastic was Teddy Feinberg who ranked Oklahoma State No. 12. If you're a fan of Oklahoma State or Georgia, you should hope that Houston stays ranked. Otherwise, there is a very good case that none of those teams should be ranked right now. These voters may be right by the season's end, but the season is still young. There is a reason that voters get to turn in a new ballot each week. They should vote based on what they see today instead of focusing on being right in the end. Fans in the future might hail them as a modern-day Nostradamus, but today they will angrily assume voters either: A) Have some bias or agenda to push, B) Didn't watch the games or C) Forgot or made a mistake. Plus Nostradamus died of gout and edema. So I think the right choice is clear.

The SI Staff

New York City 21244 77741 By Hugh Falk, <a href="http://www.pollspeak.com/" target="_blank">Pollspeak.com</a> This week Florida received two fewer first place AP votes than in the preseason, but gained three in the Coaches' poll. Florida is playing great and has done exactly what is expected. I understand why they could lose a couple votes in the AP… not for playing badly, but just because other teams have won tougher games at this point in the season. However, I'm not sure why they gained more votes in the Coaches' poll (and without ballots it's hard to guess). One vote likely came from whoever voted Oklahoma No. 1 in the preseason. The other two must have been swayed by Florida's gutsy wins over Charleston Southern and Troy. It's really too soon to put much faith in computer rankings, but for what it's worth, three of the four BCS computers that currently release rankings have USC ranked higher than Florida and two of them have the <a href="http://pollspeak.com/pollstalker/pollstalker.php?s=9&p=17&v=375&t1=105&w=3&r=T" target="_blank">Trojans ranked No. 1</a>. Both human polls kept the Men of Troy at No. 3 this week. I was only mildly surprised that they didn't move up to number No. 2 after a road win at then No. 7/8 Ohio State.