Three Reasons Not to Hate Duke

2008-11-26T02:15:14-05:00

2008-11-22T00:06:15-05:00

2008-11-22T00:07:18-05:00

2008-11-26T02:15:14-05:00

DukeFan_71

Durham 361595

28 1) To the idiot with the "Aryan" comment--in case you haven't watched Duke basketball, they have 5 black players out of the 13 who get any playing time, including 2 of the 5 starters. Some of Duke's best players have been black (remember Johnny Dawkins, Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Shane Battier, Carlos Boozer and Sheldon Williams?) There is no such thing anymore as an "all-white" team. 2) Coach K is no different than Roy Williams, Dean Smith, Bobby Knight, Adolph Rupp, or the "Wizard of Westwood". He is a great coach, leading one of the top-tier teams in the country, that consistently wins and has detractors as well as supporters. He loves the kids who play for him like they were his own family (as does the rest of his family), and he is always there for them no matter where they go or what they do. I know this because I have known him for 20 years and have met most of the teams who have played for him since 1988. 3) Stop badgering the lacrosse team. I don't care what school you pull for--tell me no students at your school have ever done something stupid, and I'll call you a liar to your face. How about all these schools that are known more for their parties than their education? Duke doesn't even come close to making that list. You don't see their female students showing up in Girls Gone Wild videos. The only reason this was such a big deal is because this kind of behavior is NOT the typical behavior of students at Duke. If this had been a story about a bunch of Miami football players hiring a couple of strippers for a keg party, it would have been lucky to make the back page of the Miami Herald. And the reason the students were found not guilty was because the girl in question couldn't keep her stories straight for 2 seconds, and her own friend who was there with her said she was lying. Not exactly a stand-up citizen, to put it mildly. 4) Duke is not just "rich white kids". They have a more racially and culturally diverse student body than any other college in the state, including North Carolina. Asian, black, Latino, Middle Eastern...you name it, they have it. The reason parents want their kids to go to colleges like Duke (and Stanford, MIT, and others) is because of the diverse education they will get both in AND out of the classroom. It's hard to call yourself "worldly" if you only hang around whites or blacks all the time. 5) Neither Coach K nor Roy Williams disrespects ANY player from opposing teams--I've seen them at times give more respect to a player than that player's own coach does. The incident between Henderson and Hansbrough was unfortunate, but was blown out of proportion. Henderson did not mean to hit Hansbrough--he's not that kind of player. And the reason Coach K didn't comment much about it was because the two players (who are still good friends, by the way) handled the situation between themselves, like two adults should be able to do. Henderson apologized, Hansbrough accepted, and they were fine. It was everyone else who lost their minds about it. Get over it already. 6) Duke is a great school. So is Carolina. And UCLA, and Kentucky, and many others. They all have their good years where they're winning and everybody hates them, and their bad years where they can't buy a win and everyone ignores them. Duke is no better or worse in any of those regards than any other great school, so try not to forget that in all of your posturing and name-calling. 3453413

2008-11-22T11:24:18-05:00

MADevil30

Durham 614397

K is still trying to build his Aryan Army (e.g. the latest signees).

4 You're totally right, never mind the 3 national championships, 7 championship game appearances, 10 final fours, 10 number 1 seeds, and 11 regular season championships since K has been there, race is clearly his priority over putting the best basketball team on the floor Arguments like that just make you look jealous 3419055

2008-11-25T23:59:57-05:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/211/80/thumb/UNC.jpg 24 NC

QuadU40

Carrboro 21220

You're totally right, never mind the 3 national championships, 7 championship game appearances, 10 final fours, 10 number 1 seeds, and 11 regular season championships since K has been there, race is clearly his priority over putting the best basketball team on the floorArguments like that just make you look jealous

27 I totally agree with you. Coach K has done wonderful things at Duke. But sometime around 2003, he stopped recruiting athletic players and began recruiting a much lighter shade of player; and the results have suffered. Say what you will, but even though K had his share of slow, white players in the 90s, they were bolstered by several athletes: Hill, Maggette, Avery, Battier, Brand. Since Luol Deng departed Duke, K has not recruited a single NBA-caliber athlete to the school. Sure Henderson is athletic but not the same caliber of player of the aforementioned. When every single high major school has, at best, 30-40% white players and Duke is maintaining around or above 50%, something is a little fishy. For Duke's sake (and the sake of the rivalry) I hope K can see (and I think he does via the lack of results) that he needs to change his philosophy. 3452829

2008-11-25T16:19:06-05:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/950/69/thumb/713097.jpg 37 IN

PurdueMatt

Fishers 95369

26 Can't wait to see how they do against my Boilers in Mackey Arena next week. 3448867

2008-11-24T21:12:06-05:00

roypaysplayers

Charlotte 614785

25 " When that was put in contrast with Dean Smith's humble demeanor and the "coolness" of UNC and alums such as MJ, it was a no-brainer. It was very easy to love UNC and just as easy to loathe Duke, largely because of their respective coaches and the attitude they projected onto their players, whether simply perceived or actually true." THIS^^^ is outrageous. Smith was never "humble." He enabled Phil Ford's alcoholism by covering up the ex-point guard's numerous DUI's and he did it NOT to save Phil the public humiliation but he did it to keep his program from being tarnished. Who wrote the book entitled "The Carolina Way?" Isn't that the "bible" on how things are done at the nation's "public ivy?" It's the manifesto on how things should be done yet unc'ers think that it's DUKE that holds themselves up as the example for others to follow. And,yes,this IS all about Duke's success. Any reference to any school with more RECENT success is beside the point. Duke has had successful basketball teams prior to K's arrival but his teams have been winning games at the dawn of the cable tv,internet,radio call-in show and ESPN "age." Never before has a program been as widely scrutinized as K's Duke teams. Sure,the heels are still very good but they also had much success prior to those other factors that I mentioned. As such,being an "abc'er" was more of a regional phenomena than a national one. Otherwise,unc would suffer the same national backlash that Duke endures. Thing is,heel fans aren't upset with Duke because of any of the lame excuses they tend to regurgitate. Their problem is simple. They want to BE Duke. Back in tha day,it was unc who was often the so-called "villain" due to their success. Those teams AND their fanbase relished that role unapologetically. Now,Duke basketball is always THE top story,win or lose. THAT is what the heel fans want to regain. They want their spotlight back and it kills 'em that they don't have it anymore. Trust me,if they were in Duke's place they'd love it. They always did before. I've lived in NC all of my life and there's nuthin' worse to that fanbase than playing second-fiddle to Duke...either on the court or in the press. And if anyone thinks that MJ's association with unc makes that school "cool",well,I'm not sure I can help ya. "His airness" was/is a habitual adulterer with a gambling problem so severe that it led to his being banned from the league and the tragic and unfortunate demise of his father. Never mind the fact that he was a lousy teammate and an idiot GM. When did ANY of that become "cool?" 3438079

2008-11-24T21:11:50-05:00

roypaysplayers

Charlotte 614785

24 " When that was put in contrast with Dean Smith's humble demeanor and the "coolness" of UNC and alums such as MJ, it was a no-brainer. It was very easy to love UNC and just as easy to loathe Duke, largely because of their respective coaches and the attitude they projected onto their players, whether simply perceived or actually true." THIS^^^ is outrageous. Smith was never "humble." He enabled Phil Ford's alcoholism by covering up the ex-point guard's numerous DUI's and he did it NOT to save Phil the public humiliation but he did it to keep his program from being tarnished. Who wrote the book entitled "The Carolina Way?" Isn't that the "bible" on how things are done at the nation's "public ivy?" It's the manifesto on how things should be done yet unc'ers think that it's DUKE that holds themselves up as the example for others to follow. And,yes,this IS all about Duke's success. Any reference to any school with more RECENT success is beside the point. Duke has had successful basketball teams prior to K's arrival but his teams have been winning games at the dawn of the cable tv,internet,radio call-in show and ESPN "age." Never before has a program been as widely scrutinized as K's Duke teams. Sure,the heels are still very good but they also had much success prior to those other factors that I mentioned. As such,being an "abc'er" was more of a regional phenomena than a national one. Otherwise,unc would suffer the same national backlash that Duke endures. Thing is,heel fans aren't upset with Duke because of any of the lame excuses they tend to regurgitate. Their problem is simple. They want to BE Duke. Back in tha day,it was unc who was often the so-called "villain" due to their success. Those teams AND their fanbase relished that role unapologetically. Now,Duke basketball is always THE top story,win or lose. THAT is what the heel fans want to regain. They want their spotlight back and it kills 'em that they don't have it anymore. Trust me,if they were in Duke's place they'd love it. They always did before. I've lived in NC all of my life and there's nuthin' worse to that fanbase than playing second-fiddle to Duke...either on the court or in the press. And if anyone thinks that MJ's association with unc makes that school "cool",well,I'm not sure I can help ya. "His airness" was/is a habitual adulterer with a gambling problem so severe that it led to his being banned from the league and the tragic and unfortunate demise of his father. Never mind the fact that he was a lousy teammate and an idiot GM. When did ANY of that become "cool?" 3438076

2008-11-24T14:35:38-05:00

DukeGL5

Alexandria 615797

23 JayhawkRock - See, I can deal with this. I understand how the snobby white elite perception developed (as Exhibit A, see Laettner, Christian). And how it's continued (as Exhibit B, see Redick, JJ). That's fine. As to the success thing...it's not that I think people are envious of Duke's success. It's just that if Duke consistently lost during the past two decades, no one would care how Coach K runs his team. But because they've had success, they've been in the public eye and thus more heavily scrutizined. I do take issue when that perception is projected at the entire student body. Because there's no way Kansas and UNC are more diverse than Duke. But that's another matter. Also, as I said in the above post, I have a problem when people take the position that the Duke program is evil or disrespectful. Why can't a sports rivalry be just that? To people at Duke it is, for the most part. We don't hate the Carolina players, coaches or students. We cheer against them, but it's not personal. In fact, we loved going over and hanging out at Carolina when I was at Duke. But that doesn't seem to go both ways. I consistently found (and still find) myself defending against personal attacks on Coach K, the players and the students. But whatever, it entertains me while I'm "working." 3433338

2008-11-24T14:18:39-05:00

DukeGL5

Alexandria 615797

22 The comment re: USA basketball just goes to show that among American Basketball's authorities, Coach K is about as highly regarded as they come. That's true, whether you like it or not. Now...it appears your entire argument is based on the Henderson/Hansbrough incident. First, I'll say this. Show me one instance, a single instance, "those very people [I] spoke of" saying it was "clearly deliberate." Just one credible source (Roy Williams does not count). Because no one said that. I've watched the clip 50 times having this argument with my Carolina friends. And not even they think he did it on purpose anymore. Henderson went up for the block, Hansbrough pump faked, Henderson tried to redirect, and his forearm hit Hansbrough on the face. It was overly aggressive, and he called called for a flagrant. Henderson was a freshman in a big game and made a careless play. But this attempt to villify him is just absurd. As to Coach K, I agree that he could have been more sympathetic to Hansbrough. But he wasn't trying to disrepect the kid, he was just being protectionist of his own player because a million angry Tarheel fans were calling for his head. Protecting their players (who in this case, was just an 18 year old kid) is part of the job of a college coach. Again, I don't have any problem with people who don't like Duke. Believe me, I'm used to it by now. But what bothers me is the movement to paint Duke Basketball out to be an evil, conspiratorial, rule-breaking, disrespectful organization. It's just not true. Be objective. Be empathetic. Coach K runs one of the cleanest programs in the country, and even Roy Williams would agree with that. Was the Hansbrough face incident bad? Yes, sure. Could Coach K have handled it better? Yes, sure. But do he and his team engage in "orchestrated disrespect." No, of course not. 3433122

2008-11-24T13:53:34-05:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/122/135/thumb/KANSAS_Signs.jpg 245 KS

JayhawkRock

Lawrence 122434

21 The reason a lot of people in this generation hate Duke is because they were symbols of that type of Aryan team in the 90s when they had all of their success. When I was growing up, people like Wojo were very easy to hate, and their teams and fans at least appeared to be snobby white elites. When that was put in contrast with Dean Smith's humble demeanor and the "coolness" of UNC and alums such as MJ, it was a no-brainer. It was very easy to love UNC and just as easy to loathe Duke, largely because of their respective coaches and the attitude they projected onto their players, whether simply perceived or actually true. And to those who say the hatred is all about the success of the Duke program, I doubt there are many at the high-level basketball schools who are actually envious anymore. In recent years, UNC, KU and UCLA have experienced much more success than Duke, so the fact that this hatred has continued recently shows that it is less about jealousy and more about the program itself. And it's not that I'm a Coach K hater, I just think the way he runs his program essentially begs for criticism. 3432714

2008-11-24T13:39:07-05:00

http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_profile/image/408/665/thumb/tea_bag.jpg 4 NC

zakk99

Castle Hayne 409105

20 DukeGL5 ... thanks for proving my point. Again the Duke mindset shows it's ugly head. You say that all of America's basketball community thinks that K is the face of American basketball. Okay ... as purely self-serving as that assertion is ... I'll go along with it ... but then in true Duke nation fashion, you claim that Henderson's foul was only a hard foul, when the rest of those very people you spoke of have said it was clearly deliberate and that by K trying to blame Roy for still having Hansbrough in the game was an embarrassment to himself and the program. Okay, maybe Billy Packard didn't think it was intentional ... but that speaks for it's self. Point is, K, still to this day has not stated that his player did anything wrong, to the contrary, he has even labeled Henderson as the victim! .. Which could be true, Henderson will always be remembered for the cheap shot, and for what? .... playing what you call "post JJ" defense? By the way ... you don't call a 3 time (2 time when the foul happened) all-American and national player of the year .... that kid .. but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. the point is ... they both called him that ... and that was no coincidence ... that was ... as I called it before ... orchestrated disrespect ! 3432524

2008-11-24T12:35:42-05:00

DukeGL5

Alexandria 615797

19 To EastCoastKeith: You can regurgitate stereotypes all you want to, but that won't make them true. Duke is an extremely diverse school, in terms of race, religion, culture...and by almost any other measure. Sure, there are plenty "rich, white, elitist" types at Duke. But there are a lot of those at Carolina, and every other school in the ACC. I grew up lower middle class in North Carolina and went to Duke on scholarship. Many of my friends there had similar stories. Meanwhile, some of the most affluent of my high school friends wound up at Carolina joining fraternities and generally only associating with other "rich, white, elitist" types. I'm so tired of the characterization you're making. It's okay to hate Duke Basketball because of success, or because you like Carolina, or because you thought JJ was cocky. But stop attacking the student body and making uninformed, inaccurate assertions. They're just a bunch of kids from all over the country (world, really) who like watching basketball. 3431522

<div class="photo_container image_right"> <div class="photo"><img src="http://img.fannation.com/upload/si_blog_post_images/p1.duke.jpg" alt="P1" width="300" height="508" /></div> <div class="photo_attributes" style="text-align: left;">Nolan Smith gives Duke speed and athleticism at PG. AP</div> </div> (Or rather, three reasons not to hate on Duke's worthiness as a top-five team, following its 71-56 win over Michigan in the finals of the 2K Sports College Hoops Classic ...) 1. In sophomore Nolan Smith, they now have a speedy starting point guard who can ball-pressure on D and get into the lane on offense. Smith is no virtuoso at the position yet -- the guy he supplanted in the first unit, Greg Paulus, still has better court vision -- but choosing speed and athleticism over experience is already starting to pay off. Duke was plus-18 when Smith was on the floor against Michigan, compared to just plus-four with Paulus (who, it should be noted, is nursing a hand injury). But Smith made enough smart decisions with the ball on Friday to lead the Blue Devils in scoring (with 16 points on 6-of-8 shooting) and dish out four assists against two turnovers. Smith actually considered leaving Duke this offseason. His best friend and former AAU teammate, Michael Beasley, hinted during an appearance at the Final Four that there was a possibility Smith, who was frustrated after his freshman season, might transfer -- not necessarily to Kansas State, since Beasley was soon turning pro, but to somewhere. Then on April 26, Smith's father figure at Duke, assistant Johnny Dawkins, left to take the head coaching job at Stanford. Dawkins was a former teammate of Smith's late father, Derek, on the Philadelphia 76ers. "He was the coach who brought me to Duke," Smith said, "and once he was gone, the question was, 'What do I do?'" Blue Devils coach Mike Krzyzewski had been occupied with Team USA duties while the situation festered, and another freshman, Taylor King, had already left for Villanova. It took a meeting with Krzyzewski later in the spring, in which Smith remembers his coach saying, "He had all the confidence in the world about me coming back, and he said he was behind me and he supported me. I really needed to hear that." Smith then headed off to Philadelphia, where he honed his point-guard skills in workouts with Beasley and former Texas A&M center DeAndre Jordan, who were both preparing for the NBA Draft. "I was a shooting guard when I came to college," Smith said, "and you can't really change that in one year. I needed the summer to make it work." Now he has the reins of the team -- "and I feel like they trust me as a leader," he says -- and has already made an impact by applying more defensive heat at the top of their man-to-man defense than Paulus could provide. Says junior Gerald Henderson of Smith, "No one else on the team can be a pest on the ball like he can." 2. They have some legitimate size in the post -- even if it's just for 20 minutes a game. Brian Zoubek once looked as if his career was on a tragic path, as a 7-foot bench-dweller whose time at Duke would be marred by injuries. But he said on Friday -- after shooting 5-of-6 from the field for 16 points over two 2K Sports Classic games -- that his foot was now at "100 percent" and his stamina was steadily improving. Even in his current role, giving the Blue Devils two good spurts of post play at the beginning of each half, before being spelled by 6-8 Lance Thomas, Zoubek has had a tangible impact. If 6-10 freshman Miles Plumlee isn't going to be a major part of the rotation -- and it seems that way after the past two games -- then Zoubek is their only low-post regular taller than 6-8. If he stays healthy and limits the pounding 6-8 sophomore Kyle Singler -- their unquestioned offensive star -- has to take by guarding most teams' biggest post bodies, then Zoubek will be a valuable asset. Singler took on the look of a battered hockey defenseman last season, when they had no other defensive options down low. 3. They have the depth to play a nine-man rotation, which could help ward off another late-season collapse. Krzyzewski has been stuck with short benches in years past -- the '05-06 team, with J.J. Redick and Shelden Williams, only had two regular reserves -- but could now make a reasonable squad out of his backups. A team with Paulus at the point, freshman Elliot Williams at the two, senior David McClure at the three, Thomas at the four and Plumlee at the five could probably finish above .500 in the Big Ten. "It's good that those guys have their ego where they should be, so that they have confidence like starters," Krzyzewski said. Most teams become less court-savvy when they sub, but in seniors Paulus and McClure, Duke has the rare luxury of adding experience when it needs to give Smith, Singler and Henderson a breather. 25822

Luke Winn

New York 4563