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  • January 08, 2008 09:05 PM ET

SIFS TOURNAMENT ROUND #3 - Will Roger Clemens get into the Hall of Fame?

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers (117-19-8) vs DJTG_2010 (85-27-3)
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Roger Clemens WILL get into the Hall of Fame

Let's first just say right off the bat that he is one of the top 10 pitchers ALL TIME. He clearly has all the numbers to make the Hall of Fame.

The only question now becomes whether or not the ALLEGED steroid use keeps him out. Keep in mind that in America, one is innocent until PROVEN guilty. Roger is not guilty of steroid use yet, he was only accused by a desperate man trying to save himself jail time.

Now let's assume he eventually does get proved of steroid use (again, he is innocent now, but I am making this assumption for the sake of this argument)

Where does the voters draw the lines for steroid users? Are they not going to let Barry Bonds in the Hall of Fame? What about the fact that Roger still put up all his fantastic pitching numbers in an era dominated by roided up hitters?

Look, the fact of the matter is that Clemens will probably not make it into the Hall on the first ballot. This will be his punishment, but he WILL get into the HOF eventually.


The Bonds effect will prevent Clemens from getting into the Hall of Fame.

On one level, Bonds and Clemens are the exact same people. They are both the most dominate players at their positions and have many major records to their credit. They both have been implicated in steroid scandals. They both are innocent. Yet it does not seem as if Bonds will be elected to the Hall of Fame. So why should Clemens be elected?

Also the way Clemens has handled everything is being questioned, as there are many conflicting stories about whether or not he is lying about his steroid use. These conflicts will make it hard for the media to elect him as skepticism will be abound.

As of right now, Clemens is innocent. However that does not mean he is unaffected by this. Clemens has the dark cloud of steroid use hanging over him that will prevent him from being elected. Look at McGwire. No positive test (yes he screwed up in front of congress, we know). He has 583 home runs and had the single-season home run record. No HoF for him. Don't forget that Palmeiro is one of four players to have 500 HRs and 3,000 hits and he will most likely be rejected. Continue below (sorry bout that)...


The Bonds effect will actually help Clemens get into the Hall of Fame. Now don't just vote because I said that...actually hear me out.

So far there has not been 1 positive test against Bonds, the prosecution only has others words against Bonds. This is the same thing for Clemens. There haven't been positive tests (and yes, there are allegations of steroid use besides the HGH - and steroids would have shown up in urine samples)

How can you say Bonds will not be elected to the HOF? All that I've heard from voters is that they plan to vote him in and let the fans decide when they visit the HOF if Bonds used performance enhancers.

How could Clemens have handled it any better? Should he have been like Big Mac and just said he wouldn't talk about the past? Hmmm, that strategy didn't work out so well for Big Mac. Clemens did exactly what he had to do, he came out firing against his accuser.

This steroid thing is turning into a witch hunt. What can Clemens do to prove his innocence? He already offered to testify before congress, he denied the use emphatically, and he even sued his accuser. To me, this is showing he is innocent.


So the Bonds effect, a dark cloud hanging over the head of Clemens and tarnishing his reputation and placing suspicion upon all of his records, will help Clemens? I don???t think so. If anything, it should hurt Clemens.

This will follow Clemens forever. Like Bonds, steroids will always be associated with his name from now on. Even if he comes out firing against his accuser, it can be interpreted in two ways. It can be interpreted as him defending his innocence OR it can be interpreted as him trying to cover his butt and deflect the attention. Given the nature of the media, I think it will be the latter.

The damage is done. Being named in the Mitchell Report is enough damage for anone to be kept out of the Hall of Fame. The association with steroid use is damaging. Very damaging. Given some of the criticism Clemens has faced from his 60 Minutes segment, I don???t think he will get in. Sorry Roger.


The Bonds effect being that Barry Bonds is one of the top 5 players in baseball history and that there has not been 1 postive test against him. That's right, NOT ONE. Hmmm, that almost sounds familiar. Where have I heard about one of the greatest at their positions getting ACCUSED of steroid use? Oh yea, Roger Clemens.

Your second paragraph is exactly why this steroid accusation is a witch hunt. Because of McGwire and Canseco, us fans and the media are lookin for excuses to tear down our superstars. How is someone supposed to defend themselves if they are accused of steroids? What if I wrote a book tomorrow detailing steroid use of Alex Rodriguez? Would you now just assume that he did steroids too?

Roger came out and denied all use. He will testify before congress. This is what an innocent person should do in my eyes.

The fact that Roger is the best pitcher of his generation, the fact that he has emphatically denied steroid use, and the fact that there is NOT ONE POSITIVE TEST is plenty enough for Roger to get in.

The question shouldn't be whether or not Roger gets into the HOF, but what ballot he gets in.


Ok so the media is on a witch hunt for steroid users. Clemens wants to get into the Hall of Fame. Who elects players into the Hall of Fame? Baseball writers. What organization are the writers part of? The media. Clemens has the deck stacked against him.

Those people have influenced the media which in turn influences the writers which in turn influences us. Barry Bonds denied his steroid use. Is he innocent to you? The Mitchell Report???s shadow will be cast over Clemens and the rest of the era forever, bringing up questions every time someone comes up for induction. It???s McGwire, as it appears he will be the first member of the 500 home run club not elected to the Hall of Fame.

It???s difficult, but Clemens will be shut out due to the media witch hunt. It is hard to imagine, but it is definitely plausible. He only had softball questions on 60 Minutes and was a bit flustered in his other press conference, adding suspicion. Shut out.

January 8, 2008  09:20 PM ET

This should be a great one

January 8, 2008  09:23 PM ET

Sure he can

I mean it cost what 15 bucks a ticket to get in? I mean take the family and see all the exhibits and watch the old games, I mean he has to do SOMETHING now until the Yanks pay him 150 mil to pitch 4 games in April.

January 9, 2008  06:29 PM ET

Yes, Palmeiro tested positive, but being associated with steroids AT ALL immediately tarnishes Clemens' reputation. He won't get in.

End argument.

3000 COMMENT BTW!

January 11, 2008  09:59 AM ET

alot of the voters have said that they would not vote bonds in on the first ballot but would vote him in later and let the fans decide if his stats were legit....the same thing will happen to roger...he will get in, but it wont be first ballot

January 11, 2008  10:51 PM ET

no he wont because i think he used roids

January 11, 2008  11:02 PM ET

A lot of this was for the sake of the argument, BTW.

January 11, 2008  11:05 PM ET

This was a great TD, both of you... I think public sentiment right now trends toward punishing these steroid-using players with HOF banishment, but the fact remains that there are plenty of unsavory characters in there and baseball accomplishments are recognized first and foremost. The game is ever-changing... look at it this way: even with performance enhancement, Clemens wasn't able to even SEE Cy Young's 511 wins...

Both of you argued this thing incredibly well, and it is hard to sort out all of this. In the end, the baseball writers will be forced to either accept or reject all the best players of this era in a tacit and sweeping policy... and they are more likely to let them in than keep them out on mere speculation and hearsay...

January 12, 2008  12:03 AM ET

I am going to say no on this one. If he gets caught lying then his goose is totally cooked. His denials seem too staged. If it never comes out that he lied then he might have a slim chance on getting in; however I still don't see him getting in.

 
January 12, 2008  10:07 PM ET

This is such a tough vote because there is so much more that will be unfolding as time moves on. It's had to argue. Bonds is in a tougher spot because of the perjury charges and how the public views him. Most of the public doesn't like Clemens either but he's still more likeable than Bonds. Public reception is a huge deal. The only reason Jim Rice isn't in the HOF is because he was a bit of an **** to the media. But still, it's a disgrace that he isn't in because he was one of the best sluggers of his generation.

So with that said, AS OF NOW, I think Clemens is getting in.

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