Greatest MMA Fighter Ever - The MVP
Hyped78 said 01/12, 01:16 PM
Opening argument only the fighter's name, 2nd and 3rd the discussion.
My pick: Randy "The Natural" Couture
At_Home@Wrigley said 01/12, 01:39 PM
My choice is Fedor Emelianenko.
Hyped78 said 01/12, 01:53 PM
Fedor's a beast, no doubt about it. But Randy has achieved legendary status in MMA.
He's been around since 1997, since the beginning. He came into the big stage by upsetting, at the time, the highly regarded Vitor Belfort. He then beat guys such as Maurice Smith, Jeremy Horn, Kevin Randleman, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (the only man ever to beat Fedor), Pedro Rizzo on two occasions. He was the UFC's heavyweight champion.
When age seemed to caught up with him, he re-invented himself, dropping to 205. He came back and beat Chuck Lidell and Tito Ortiz, thus becoming the first ever UFC fighter to have held belts in two different weight classes (heavyweight and light-heavyweight). He again beat Belfort.
Upon retiring, and after being introduced into the UFC's Hall of Fame, he did the impossible, he came back... to fight as a heavyweight once again! He beat Tim Sylvia to capture the gold and then defended it successfully against Gonzaga.
This is the stuff legends are made of. Besides, he's a fan favorite.
Fedor is the most devastating HW, probably ever. But he's yet to face some tough competition, and he's yet to fight in the UFC.
At_Home@Wrigley said 01/12, 02:19 PM
Good argument. I loved watching 'The Natural' fight, and he is legendary...but so are many other fighters who have been around for as long as he has. Even though he has surprised many with his upsets and comebacks, his record leaves much room for improvement. At 16 wins and 8 losses, he has proven holes in his fighting style. For the most part, he is a ground & pound fighter who learned a little Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai over the years.
Fedor on the other hand, though he has not been in the UFC has demolished his competition. The one fight that he did lose was due to an illegal blow that caused a cut. However, it was in a tournament, so he couldn't move on. He did avenge that loss and defeat Kohsaka in the 1st round the next time they met.
Fedor has breezed through fighters from all over the world such as Hiroya Takada, Dohasaka, Kerry Schall, Semmy Schilt, Gary Goodridge and Mark Coleman (twice).
Additionally, and I know that Randy was an olympic wrestler, but Fedor holds 4 MMA championships, including 2 in RINGS an 2 in PRIDE (one of which he still holds). He also holds National and World championships in Judo and Sambo.
Hyped78 said 01/12, 02:31 PM
Randy's 16-8 record attests that he fought some very stiff competition. In MMA, records have to be read in light of the opponents actually fought. One or two matches in the UFC are generally bigger wins that 10 or 15 in little-known organizations.
"but so are many other fighters who have been around for as long as he has" ---> not with the level of success he still has. You have guys like Mark Coleman or Frank Shamrock, who are still around, but they're not a factor like Randy still is. Couture just keeps beating the odds of his age, surprising everyone with new and new matches. No other fighter has been able to do that at Randy's advanced age.
You're showing examples of Fedor wins... against poor competition! You said Kerry Schall, Takada, Dohasaka, Goodridge... that's not good competition.
If you want to defend Fedor, you're gonna have to say that he beat the likes of Cro-Cop, Minotauro, Heath Herring, Randleman, and so forth (along with Coleman), not some of the guys you're talking about.
At_Home@Wrigley said 01/12, 02:48 PM
I won't argue over whether fighters listed other than the two we are speaking specifically about are good or bad. That's besides the point. The point is that Fedor has walked all over all competition that has gotten in his way. His weakness, if anything is his management, who is the real barrier between Fedor and the UFC where he can prove himself to all the nay-sayers who feel that if you aren't in the UFC, you're not a good fighter. His track record speaks for itself.
30 fights, 28 wins, 1 no contest, and 1 very questionable loss.
Not to mention:
2 PRIDE championships
2 RING championships
A Judo championship and several placings in other tournaments
10 Sambo championships accross the globe
Lets not forget that this man is 6' and 240 lbs. and is not limited to the typical heavyweight fighting style of swing until my arms fall off. He has fast hands, great combos, excellent submissions, and has yet to encounter anyone that can stop him.
If you don't recognize him as the greatest MMA fighter of all time, then you will someday. His record speaks for itself, and he is just getting started. The UFC will be changed when he enters their ring for the first time.
Faces at the U.S. Open
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Comments (16)
HA! I love to see two votes before I even post my first argument.....oh well....wuddya gonna do, right?
At_Home@Wrigley | 01/12/08, 02:20 PM
Report Offensive CommentOne of them was my own. I voted for myself, you can do the same (everyone votes for themselves, from what i've seen).
The other I don't know. The systems allows voters to cast their votes from the moment both guys have submitted their first arguments. I said Couture, you said Fedor, someone voted for me before hearing out the rest.
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 02:25 PM
Report Offensive CommentYeah, I know. I figured one was your vote....not really gonna lose any sleep over the 2nd one....lol!
At_Home@Wrigley | 01/12/08, 02:27 PM
Report Offensive CommentBoth seem to be good arguments but At_Home@Wrigley SSSC you killed yourself by listing Fedor accomplishments they are all washed up. Randy's list of wins is much better past and present. And come October we will see that Randy is the best fighter in the Heavy Weight Class. It is hard to say who is the greatest but Gracie has to be up there he practically invented the sport and has continued train some of the best fighters. So this is why I have to go with Randy here because the fighters coming out of Extreme Couture are some of the best in the world right now. Not only is he great but makes other fighters great.
Dallas Sports Fan | 01/12/08, 02:36 PM
Report Offensive CommentI honestly thought, when coming up with this TD, of the guy I was going to pick. Fedor was obviously a candidate, as were Royce Gracie, Wanderlei Silva, Matt Hughes, Minotauro, etc. I decided to pick Randy, though.
Some very strong arguments can be made for Fedor, but "Fedor has breezed through fighters from all over the world such as Hiroya Takada, Dohasaka, Kerry Schall" is clearly not one of them. It's as if Wrigley doesn't know who Kerry Schall (TUF season 2) or the others are...
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 02:40 PM
Report Offensive CommentI mean, the guy beat Minotauro, Fujita, Herring, Ricardo Arona, Matt Lindland (weight difference, though), Babalu Sobral, Ogawa, Randleman, Mark Hunt, etc... and Kerry Schall pops up?!?! :)
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 02:42 PM
Report Offensive CommentAnd "Dohasaka" doesn't exist.
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 02:44 PM
Report Offensive CommentFujita and Babalu were his best fights. Lindland ...overrated not really that good. And most of these were almost 5 years ago. Randleman was recent but he is ok. When you compare the who's who oneach fighter W colum Randy has fought the best.
Dallas Sports Fan | 01/12/08, 02:50 PM
Report Offensive CommentSorry..."Dohasaka" should have been Kohsaka. That's what you get for typing with a 6 month old on your lap who is slap happy.
At_Home@Wrigley | 01/12/08, 02:52 PM
Report Offensive Comment"The UFC will be changed when he enters their ring for the first time" ---> I do hope he enters the UFC, at all. That would be great for the sport.
I've been watching UFC and Pride FC for a long time. When Zuffa bought Pride FC, I thought that was really going to do wonders for the sport, because we were going to get the same two organizations, one in the US and the other in Japan, but now with cross-organizational matches. Too bad Pride died :(
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 02:58 PM
Report Offensive CommentHe will be out of his contract (hopfully) with M-1 at the end of 2009. If he has half a brain he will come over. The last thing he wants to do is join the UFC after he's gotten too old.
At_Home@Wrigley | 01/12/08, 03:01 PM
Report Offensive CommentHeck, he had the chance to fight Randy if he would have just signed with UFC!
At_Home@Wrigley | 01/12/08, 03:02 PM
Report Offensive CommentHis M-1 contract isn't exclusive, but Dana White will only have him fighting in the UFC exclusively.
He'll be 33 at the end of 2009. I'd rather have him now in the UFC, of course :)
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 03:10 PM
Report Offensive CommentRandy's contract runs out in Oct. in which time there is talk of them fighting for HDfights in Dallas. You bet yo Ars I will be there. This by the way was talked about during the last HDNet Fights in Dallas.
Dallas Sports Fan | 01/12/08, 03:11 PM
Report Offensive CommentM-1 is in negotiations with a joint promotion with HD Net sorry I left that part out.
Dallas Sports Fan | 01/12/08, 03:12 PM
Report Offensive CommentWell, if Randy fights Fedor is Texas, I'll wish I was living in Texas!!!! :)
Hyped78 | 01/12/08, 03:24 PM
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