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  • February 08, 2008 03:33 PM ET

HOF Tourney Finals: Make a team out of Hall of Famers that have never won the heisman trophy nor a Super Bowl

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers (117-19-8) vs Bigdleech (147-55-0)
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This is for Bigdleech only!! (sorry - fannation has been acting up and putting it up for anyone despite me challenging him)

Players must have played atleast 1 year in the Super Bowl era to be eligible for this team and 2008 inductees count! And of course they can't have any SuperBowl wins nor the Heisman trophy

First arg just list team:

QB: Dan Marino
RB: Eric Dickerson
RB: Gale Sayers (for his use as a returner)
WR: James Lofton
WR: Steve Largent
TE: Kellen Winslow
OT: Anthony Munoz
OT: Jackie Slater
OG: Tom Mack
OG: John Hannah
C: Bruce Matthews


DT: Alan Page
DT: Merlin Olsen
DE: Deacon Jones
DE: Jack Youngblood

LB: Dick Butkus
LB: Sam Huff
LB: Dave Wilcox

CB: Lem Barney
CB: Jimmy Johnson
S: Ken Houston
S: Paul Krause


Great list, I could only find two that I disagreed with:

QB: Dan Marino
RB: Eric Dickerson
RB: Gale Sayers (for his use as a returner)
WR: Don Maynard
WR: Steve Largent
TE: Ozzie Newsome
OT: Anthony Munoz
OT: Jackie Slater
OG: Tom Mack
OG: John Hannah
C: Bruce Matthews


DT: Alan Page
DT: Merlin Olsen
DE: Deacon Jones
DE: Jack Youngblood

LB: Dick Butkus
LB: Sam Huff
LB: Dave Wilcox

CB: Lem Barney
CB: Jimmy Johnson
S: Ken Houston
S: Paul Krause

So its Maynard vs. Lofton and Newsome vs. Winslow.


Maynard vs. Lofton
First off, wasn't Maynard Namath's go-to receiver? Which means he was in Superbow III (the 16-7 Jet win vs. the Colts) - He didn't have any receptions in the game, but I'm pretty sure he got the ring.

Either way, Maynard had 633 receptions for 11,834 yards and 88 touchdowns
Lofton had 764 receptions for 14,004 yards and 80 touchdowns.

So my guy has 131 more receptions, 2170 yards, but 8 fewer touchdowns. He also has 4 more probowls and 1 more all-pro teams than your guy.

Newsome vs. Winslow
This is the interesting one. I actually labored over which one to put on my team. I chose Winslow due to the fact he was named to the all NFL 75th Anniversary team (and for the other reasons below)...

Newsome:
662 receptions, 7980 yards, 47 touchdowns in 13 seasons
He averaged 12.1 yards a reception and 51 receptions a year and only 3.34 receptions per game.
He was a 3x Pro Bowler and a 7-time All-pro

Winslow:
541 receptions 6741 yards, 45 touchdowns in only 9 seasons
He averaged 12.5 yards a reception, 60 receptions a years and 4.96 receptions PER GAME
He was a 5x Pro Bowler and 4-time All-pro.

Winslow caught a playoff record 13 passes in 1982


Completely messed that one up, I had a temporary brain lapse. So I guess you get one by default, I'm not even going to argue that because I messed up the rules.
Through his first eight years, Newsome was an all-pro in every year besides his rookie season. And then Bernie Kosar came in, and he immediately dropped off in numbers. Not saying Kosar is bad, but the quarterback change definately lowered his numbers.
Who did Winslow have throwing to him? That right, Dan Fouts. As I said, Kosar wasn't bad, but Fouts could crush him any day. Having a Hall of Fame quarterback throwing to him his entire career definately helped his stats.
The Pro Bowls are fairly irrelevant, because they are often popularity contests. That is how a player like Michael Vick was able to get in. The number of times chosen All-pro is much more important, because that isn't voted on by the fans, it is chosen by people who actually know football. And Newsome wins that battle by three.
A large reason why the ypc for Newsome is so low is because of his final few years in the NFL. He lost a step, like all players do. Winslow was not nearly as old when he retired, so his numbers never took hits for that.


"The Pro Bowls are fairly irrelevant, because they are often popularity contests. That is how a player like Michael Vick was able to get in. The number of times chosen All-pro is much more important, because that isn't voted on by the fans, it is chosen by people who actually know football."
-Actually fan voting only started in 1995 which was after these guys retired. So back when they were voted to pro-bowls, they were voted in by players and coaches - so it's not a popularity contest, but rather, like the all-pro, how your peers rated you.

"Having a Hall of Fame quarterback throwing to him his entire career definately helped his stats."
- Actually, it's the other way around. Having a HOF TE in Winslow made Fouts the hall of famer he is. How many time did Fouts throw for 3000 yards before Winslow arrived? (1979) In the 6 years before Winslow, Fouts never had a 3000 yard season. He only had 1 season with a positve TD to INT ratio!
Once Winslow came around, Fouts had 3 straight 4000 yard seasons and TDs of 24, 30, and 33! Fouts and Winslow retired in 1987, and for Winslow's entire time with Fouts, Fouts never threw below 2,500 yards. So I'd say Winslow made Fouts.


Fouts is a great quarterback. I think we can agree that they both helped eachother in their careers. Fouts had no one of quality to throw to, and a bad team all around, which made it harder for him to put up stats.
And I didn't realize that about the pro bowl, I thought they started fan voting like thirty years ago.
Sorry I don't have time for much more writing, but I am really sick and I have a test first period tomorrow, so I have to get to bed.
Good luck and nice arguments.

February 8, 2008  03:47 PM ET

I'll get my argument in later.

February 8, 2008  03:49 PM ET

thanks for acceptin it and gettin it off the board

February 9, 2008  03:53 PM ET

Damn, I completely forgot about the no Super Bowl thing when I picked him. For some reason, I thought he was retired by then.

February 10, 2008  01:36 AM ET

wow - lots of hits on this one

 
February 10, 2008  01:57 AM ET

LOL Duq....Vote to:

<----------- Better Argument.

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