NMI Tourney II: Round 1 Bears All Time Roster vs. Packers All Time Roster Offense/Defense/HC
Oso's back-Sort of said 02/14, 01:03 AM
If I am to make a roster of all time Bears players, then I have to go with the following:
QB Sid Luckman
RB Walter Peyton
FB Bronco Nagurski
WR Mushin Muhammad
WR Willie Gault
TE Mike Ditka
OT Ed Healey
OG George Connor
C Bulldog Turner
OG Stan Jones
OT Joe Stydahar
DE Richard Dent
DE Doug Atkins
DT Link Lyman
DT Fridge Perry
LB Mike Singletary
LB Dick Butkus
LB Bill George
CB Charles Tillman
CB Nathan Vasher
DB George McAfee
DB Red Grange
Coach George Halas
My reasoning and arguments to follow in 2nd argument.
Bigalke said 02/14, 07:10 PM
QB - Brett Favre
RB - Paul Hornung
FB - Jim Taylor
WR - Don Hutson
WR - Sterling Sharpe
TE - Mark Chmura
OT - Cal Hubbard
OG - Jerry Kramer
C - Jim Ringo
OG - Mike Michalske
OT - Forrest Gregg
DE - Reggie White
DE - Willie Davis
DT - Gilbert Brown
DT - Henry Jordan
LB - Dave Robinson
LB - Ray Nitschke
LB - Lee Roy Caffey
CB - Herb Adderley
CB - Mike McKenzie
DB - LeRoy Butler
DB - Willie Wood
Coach - Vince Lombardi
Oso's back-Sort of said 02/15, 04:20 PM
Overall, my list is better. I have 17 HOF members to your 14. Why you didn't include Lofton is beyond me. But that's okay.
At QB everyone thinks you have me beat. But they're wrong. Luckman was one of the two original QB's to originate the forward pass. All the records Favre holds are thanks to his pioneering the pass along with Baugh. Luckman also has 7 Championships to Favre's 1.
I have the better RB/FB tandem in Sweetness, who's #2 in all time yardage. Bronco Nagurski adds a smashmouth element to my blocking/running game. With Luckman handing off to these 2 guys and lobbing to a speedy Muhammed, we're unstoppable.
On O-Line I have an all HOF squad of strong and speedy blockers who are also aided by HOF TE Ditka. No defense is getting through that, not even White and Gilbert.
With Dent and Perry complimenting old schoolers Link and Lyman who were quick and brutal. Team them up with the HOF trio of Singletary, Butkus, and George, your running game is going nowhere.
The secondary is lethal up the middle with 2 HOF DB's Grange and McAfee who will stop anything in their path. Grange is my secret weapon, who'd stop everything from sideline to sideline.
Bigalke said 02/15, 05:51 PM
First, QB. Luckman may have helped innovate the game, but he was not a great passer. He completed a full 10% fewer passes than Favre. His TD-to-INT ratio is 1.038; Favre's is 1.535. Favre is simply the better QB, & Luckman's titles came in an era when there were fewer teams...
To the O-Line... Ceorge Connor was enshrined as a LB, not a tackle... so I believe we are balanced w/4 of 5 on each line as HOF. The players aligned in my system are all intimately familiar with Lombardi's power-sweep system, & would maximize the gains of Hornung & Taylor.
Your receiving corps would go nowhere with Adderley & McKenzie blanketing them. And with Butler & Wood, two versatile safeties, protecting them, the Bears would quickly become one-dimensional. The GB offense is better suited to mix up the plays on a tough Bears defense...
And that Bears O-Line can't hold forever with two swift pass-rushers coming off the ends. Brown alone plugs most of the lanes for Payton & Nagurski, Jordan puts even more pressure on Luckman, and Nitschke teams with the underrated Caffey & Robinson to patrol a formidable linebacker corp.
This would be an amazing matchup... the Packers just have more weapons...
Oso's back-Sort of said 02/16, 08:39 AM
Luckman was a dominant QB, he engineered wins out of thin air. If Luckman had the benefit of audibles, pass interference, and receivers who ran routes in today's dainty, crumpet eating league he'd pass *and* run all over your defense all day long. My QB's a triple threat with pass, run, and punting.
As for your Power Sweep, that's great, until you try to swing that past Dent, Perry, and the brutal LB corps. Your RB's and WR's aren't getting into the secondary with that. Your WR's also will be smothered by my secondary, assuming that Favre isn't forced into increasing his record INT total. You say you have more weapons, but they are without ammo in the face of a brutal and fast front 7 and a smothering Secondary.
Your speedy DE's would be met by an equally quick & agile line, not to mention backfield where I have 2 great blockers and a running QB. I'd just run smashmouth with your team all day, and then drop short and mid routes at will with Ditka, and the WR's. McKenzie's good, but he's not matching Muhammad's speed.
This would be a formidable game, but my team has more HOF players w/ versatility, speed, and strength, plus a QB who's a threat to run and pass.
Bigalke said 02/16, 10:28 AM
Oso, the HOF is nice... but you have more HOF players because you picked mostly greybeards! Further, McAfee & Connor were voted in at positions other than listed. I think that point is moot...
So your QB can pass? Do you really think all 6 ft. & 197 # of Luckman is going to get past Gilbert Brown? Eluding White's grasp? That's as absurd as me predicting a 73-0 rout of your team by mine... & when's the last time you saw a QB punt?
Muhammad may be a good player, but what has he done as a Bear? He has averaged 65 catches & 4 TD a season since joining CHI in 2005. He isn't as dominant as you assert... & with the blanket coverage of either McKenzie OR Adderley (the HOF you wish to forget!), Muhammad could easily fade away.
Speaking of secondaries, are Vasher & Tillman really the best you could find in over 80 years of history? Both are good but not great... by today's standards. Lombardi would find a way to get Sharpe and Hutson past these two, EASILY...
I can make all the same comments you can, Oso. My O-line is just as quick & agile, we both have potent defenses, etc. There is a mind-boggling amount of talent on both sides... but GB is better balanced overall. FN will decide...
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Comments (33)
Good start. I'm eager to see BIg's list. THis should be good given the histories of these teams.
Porkins | 02/14/08, 07:37 AM
Report Offensive CommentIt will be a tough call. I think some of those less familiar with the NFL's history will be hard pressed to even know who's on the list. However, it is interesting that the Bears and Packers are #1 and #2 respectively in having members in the HOF.
Oso's back-Sort of | 02/14/08, 09:05 AM
Report Offensive CommentGreat idea for a throwdown topic.
Harris - NCAAF Is Back | 02/14/08, 10:05 AM
Report Offensive CommentYeah, excellent idea guys....and plenty of selection from both teams.
I better see "Blood" McNally on the Packer list.
PackBrew42 MrRodgersHood | 02/14/08, 01:41 PM
Report Offensive CommentGB will clearly win on the QB & WR arguments, Bears on the RB. Everything else is a toss up
PackBrew42 MrRodgersHood | 02/14/08, 01:42 PM
Report Offensive Commentunless Bigalke screws the pooch on who he selects for QB & WR
PackBrew42 MrRodgersHood | 02/14/08, 01:43 PM
Report Offensive CommentExcellent list! It is refreshing to see that a topic like this one.
cubs/bears | 02/14/08, 01:51 PM
Report Offensive CommentComment to find later. Nice list Oso.
LoveItHateIt | 02/14/08, 01:55 PM
Report Offensive CommentQB ->
RBs <-
WR ->
TE <-
OL push
DL <-
LB <-
DB ->
That's my take. I have the Bears with a slight edge for now, but it's really tight. There are some great names here. I'll wait for arguments.
Porkins | 02/15/08, 01:50 PM
Report Offensive CommentAnd we're done. Good TD Bigalke. It's quite a task to argue for throwback players on a full roster. But it's great to read and remember the days of the original gridiron teams.
Oso's back-Sort of | 02/16/08, 08:41 AM
Report Offensive CommentMy feelings are the same as Porkins. The bears have the edge. Vote to Oso.
rstowe - The NMI Emperor | 02/16/08, 09:11 AM
Report Offensive CommentBronko Nagurski and Walter Payton in the same backfield? Impossible to stop.
Harris - NCAAF Is Back | 02/16/08, 11:21 AM
Report Offensive CommentGreat TD, Oso...
Bigalke | 02/16/08, 11:55 AM
Report Offensive Commentthey should add special teams so devin hester can rape
pwronk01 | 02/16/08, 01:02 PM
Report Offensive CommentWhile Devin Hester has some mad return skills, maybe you could use a different word than that pwronk.
Oso's back-Sort of | 02/16/08, 05:17 PM
Report Offensive CommentUm, pwronk... have you ever heard of a guy named Desmond Howard? I think he could have given Hester more than a run for his money! Remember, it is Howard & not Hester who is the only special-teams player to ever win the Super Bowl MVP!!!
Bigalke | 02/16/08, 05:26 PM
Report Offensive CommentAnd I agree with Oso... please think about word choice before you idly bandy about such a polarizing and negative term...
Bigalke | 02/16/08, 05:27 PM
Report Offensive CommentLosing by one vote again. Are you serious? This TD is in throwdown limbo!!!
Oso's back-Sort of | 02/17/08, 10:00 AM
Report Offensive CommentDefense - Oso
Offense - Bigalke
I have to go with Oso here. Both teams are good and both have god offenses as well with Green Bay, but Bronko Nagurski and Walter Payton are in the same backfield, and they would probably be able to take the Green Bay defense to the limit. But, Brett Favre will have a field day with that offense, UNTIL they MUST throw due to the Bears defensive attack with Refridgerator Perry and friends. So, I think the defense for the Packers would get more tired out from all the rushing, and the Packers resorting to passing if needed will not end well... Look at some other games where teams were FORCED into those situations.
Oso, I have one question for you...
Why Not Mike Ditka?
DetroitFan* BS: Haha Harris! | 02/17/08, 10:02 AM
Report Offensive CommentI voted for Oso, sorry Bigalke, good TD though.
DetroitFan* BS: Haha Harris! | 02/17/08, 10:03 AM
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