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  • February 19, 2008 07:43 AM ET

Throwdown Tournament XV - Top 3 SS in MLB

rstowe (223-66-17) vs dudeman is gone. (31-44-7)
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List first, arguments 2nd and 3rd.

IN ORDER

1. Jimmy Rollins
2. Hanley Ramirez
3. Jose Reyes


How did I know you were gonna choose those players?

Anyone else notice they are all n the NL East?

Well, they are all so good, so I'll choose the same players.....but a different order.

1. Hanley Ramirez
2. Jimmy Rollins
3. Jose Reyes


The reason I have Rollins over Ramirez is because Rollins has a track record of being good. Ramirez hasn't proven he can produce at that level season after season. Until he does, my nod goes to Rollins - the reigning MVP.

Can't knock Ramirez' power numbers but Rollins (along with Granderson) put up 20+ HRs, 20+ Doubles, 20+ SBs last season for like the 5th time ever in history.

Without a lineup around him now due to the Cabrera trade, Ramirez' numbers may drop due to not seeing any good pitches.

In 3 years, this order may change, but have to give the nod to the "veteran" over the "rookie" for right now.


The rookie looks to be one of the most promising players in the MLB today. Because of the Cabrera trade, he will now have to step up. He has power, speed, and now he will learn the qualities of a great leader. Hanley will be the leader of his team, while Rollins has Howard and Utley that can also be the leaders of the Phils.

Stats from '07...Ramirez first:

AVG - .332 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 29 vs. 30 (Rollins...that's a wash)
RBI - 81 vs. 94 (Rollins)
Runs - 125 vs. 139 (Rollins)
SB - 51 vs. 41 (Ramirez)

Rollins had 716 at-bats....Ramirez had 639, that's 77 more at-bats. So, let me do some math, and figure out what his 716 at-bat rojected stats would be.

Ramirez had a hit every 3 at-bats. He had 212 hits. So, if you divide 77 by 3, you get about 25 more hits. That gives him 237 hits in 716 at-bats... that's a .331 average.

Ramirez had a HR every 22 at-bats, so, if you divide 77 by 22 it equals about 3 more homeruns, that gives him more homeruns than Rollins.

Ramirez had a RBI every 8 at-bats, so if you divide 77 by 8, it equals about 9 more RBIs.

Now we have:

AVG - .331 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 32 vs. 30 (Ramirez)
RBI - 90 vs. 94 (Rollins)

no space


That's the key dudeman....from your last argument - The rookie looks to be one of the most promising players in the MLB today

Rollins is considered one of the best, he doesn't look to be one of the best like Hanley.

You can't consider a guy entering his 2nd or 3rd season as the best at his position. Prove you can put up those stats in back to back seasons. The best put up great stats over and over again. Hanley might be a flash in the pan (doubt it but could happen). How many great rookies/sophomores never did anything ever again?

How many good pitches will Hanley see with no support in the lineup? You said, Rollins has Howard and Utley. That is my point. Rollins will see more pitches because no one wants to face Howard with Rollins on base.

I do believe that Hanley WILL BE the best SS in the game, it's just way to soon to give him that title. Check back at the end of this season to see how he does.


Hanley has already proved what he can do...plus, if he has better stats than Rollins than, how isn't he better? Now I know everyone is gonna say that stats aren't everything. Well, he's also the leader and a great player to have in the clubhouse.

Speaking of stats, we resume with the projection of stats.

We left off with the new stats being:

AVG - .331 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 32 vs. 30 (Ramirez)
RBI - 90 vs. 94 (Rollins)

So, now Ramirez is up 2-1...but, we aren't done.

Ramirez had a run every 5 at-bats. So, if you divide 77 by 5, Ramirez gets 14 more runs...that gives him 139 runs.

Ramirez had a stolen base every 13 at-bats. So, if you divide 77 by 13 Ramirez gets 6 more stolen bases...that gives him 57 stolen bases.

So, the projected 716 at-bat stats would be:

AVG - .331 vs. .296 (Ramirez)
HR - 32 vs. 30 (Ramirez)
RBI - 90 vs. 94 (Rollins)
Runs - 139 vs. 139 (Tie)
Stolen Bases - 57 vs. 41 (Ramirez)

So, Ramirez wins 3-1-1.

Ramirez is the leader of his team. He has the power and speed that any coach would want in a shortstop.

February 19, 2008  07:43 AM ET

Good luck dudeman!

February 19, 2008  10:23 AM ET

Sorry for the no difference...they are all just to good. Good luck R-stowe!

February 19, 2008  10:28 AM ET

This reminds me when the AL had ARod, Jeter, Nomar and Tejada all at short. You can't go wrong with any of the 3.

February 19, 2008  10:29 AM ET

This doesn't even count Tulo from Colorado.

February 19, 2008  10:43 AM ET

Its an interesting argument, as Ramirez's production will take a hit sans Cabrera in his lineup. I think he's more talented than Rollins. But thats neither here nor there, making it nowhere.

I'm a Reyes guy. Obviously. Met fan. Cant lie. Last year killed me. I think he was a gold glove lock up until that final month. He was terrible. I admit that. Once he develops the power most scouts assert he has, I think this topic could turn in his favor one day. Maybe not. Just sayin.

February 19, 2008  10:49 AM ET

rollins over ramirez

February 19, 2008  10:56 AM ET

Wait until the Jeterphiles see this....Jeter is the most besterest person ever...didn't you all get the memo?

In serious,

I'll hold my vote for now.

February 19, 2008  10:57 AM ET

I'm withholding a vote. I think its entirely unfair that rstowe has 3 votes already, with all due respect.

February 19, 2008  10:58 AM ET

I agree Moon. Hopefully those people who voted will change their vote if dudeman makes better arguments than I do.

February 19, 2008  11:02 AM ET

No vote since you have the exact same players

February 19, 2008  11:05 AM ET

More math to come...I ran out of space....thanks Moon.

February 19, 2008  11:11 AM ET

Great TD Dudeman.

NYGiants - yes we have the same players, but a different order. Why don't you do what TDs are for and vote for who has the best arguments.

February 19, 2008  11:23 AM ET

This is a graet TD R-stowe.

February 19, 2008  11:23 AM ET

I dislike people who don't vote for stupid reasons... As long as the players aren't in the same order, there is something to argue over, making it able to vote...

February 19, 2008  11:24 AM ET

great*

February 19, 2008  11:29 AM ET

Remember dude, those numbers were with support around him in the lineup.

Hanley should be great, if he can put up similar numbers this season, then I do believe he takes over the top spot from Rollins, but right now, the reigning MVP has to be on top.

February 19, 2008  11:34 AM ET

Yea the blind vote thing is annoying. I must say. Looks like this one is a decent one. I'll wait til the end.

February 19, 2008  11:35 AM ET

Tulo over Reyes.

February 19, 2008  11:36 AM ET

It is the end Moon.

 
February 19, 2008  11:37 AM ET

Jet - same argument goes for Tulo. Let's see if he can produce again at that level.

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