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Oops- I misread this. I agree Thames should start over Jones. Good luck with the TD.

So far better argument by Bandit....will change if the arguments warrant it.

Actually, both are exactly at the league average for fielding % in LF over their careers. Jones has played longer, so the averages are little different. Head to head, Thames is a little better- .985 to .983.

But to say Jones is a better hitter is untrue.

Thames career OPS- .798/ Avg OPS last 2 seasons- .829
Jones career OPS- .784/ Avg OPS last two seasons- .784

Good arguments by both, but Thames deserves the chance to be a full-time starter over Jones, who is average at best.

Good point about the power as well.

Better argument for the stats in the 2nd argument by blue...changed my vote

Jones is a terrible fielder, it's not going to be easy for him to cover the huge outfield in Comerica. Thames is more valuable for trade bait, and they need bullpen help bad. he and/or Inge will probably get traded before July 31st for pitching. I gotta agree that Thames is the better option, but I'm still open to a good argument against.

by the way, Bandit, OPS is a more telling stat about the quality of a hitter than BA.

All I know about Thames...when he was with the Yankees, in his first MLB at bat, took a Randy Johnson fastball into the stands....

I understand that Lilwound, because OPs also involves the slugging % but I believe Jones could provide a better balance on both sides(offense and defense0. He's gone through a bad year with the Cubs, but doesn't everyone have a slump at some point in their career? Comerica might be huge but you have to give him a chance. You have to respect his career .985 fielding percentage.

I also hate the "proven veteran" argument. It's something you hear so much, even from guys who should know better like managers and GMs. It's just rhetoric and nonsense.

Bandit, Jones has a .983 career fld % in LF. Thames is .985. Interestingly, relative to the league during the years they played, both those numbers are exactly league average.

I mean what makes Jones a prime candidate? His tenure with the Tigers? He hasn't started a full season with the club and it doesn't look like he will now. If you look at his career, Jones has been decent in the AL.

Sorry, .983 my bad.

Haha...in my opinion he should be patrolling left field for the Amazins. The Mets need him. Not happening but still.

Granted, goblue might be a homer so obviously he might know a little more than me about the Tigers but dang it I still stand by my point. lol

Porkins, what makes the "proven veteran" argument nonsense? By "proven" it means they have illustrated they can perform to standards or beyond it. Stats will act as a prerequisite towards showing how good a peformer a player is or was. And that in turn will show how "proven" a player is.

Jacque Jones is a perfect example of the "proven veteran" argument and why it doesn't work for me.

Baseball Prospectus has a statistic called VORP (Value over replacement player). It's basically a comparison of how good a guy is compared to an "average" player at the position. A VORP of 0 means that a guy is no better than an average player.

Jacque Jones' VORP is .6. Which sucks. It means that statsitically speaking, Jones is no better than the average guy you could ge tto replace him. As a frame of reference, Johan Santana's is 58.3.

Thames' VORP is 11.6. That's MUCH better than Jones. Thames is more valuable relative to the avergae replacement than Jones is. So Thames is younger, better, and makes less than half as much as Jones (1.275M to 3M).

The fact that the Tigers signed Jones at all is stupid. He's the prototypical "proven veteran".

Thanks for the info porkins.
I really do not see what their basis is for determining VORP. But it's fair to say they would take different variables. If age is any factor, Jones is only a couple of years older. I really cannot see the reason for the wide margin of VORP between the 2 players given that Jones has a decent career in the majors while Thames hasn't had much experience to base their criteria upon.

"He's gone through a bad year with the Cubs, but doesn't everyone have a slump at some point in their career?"

Actually last year was the best year he had with the cubs. He had an awful time at the plate and in the field for two years before that, in one of the most hitter friendly parks in baseball. The guy was getting booed every time he came to the plate at the friendly confines. He's a joke, and I'm surprised he's still being considered by a major league team as an option for a starting job.

"because OPs also involves the slugging %"

OPS is on-base avg. plus slugging average. Both SLG and OBA are better indicators of a batters skill than BA, so naturally the combination of the two far exceeds the weight of BA.

If you consider OPS, Jones should have better consistency because he started almost 4 times as many games as Thames (1260 games to Thames 332). Yet their career OPS is only percentages apart. Jones has a .783 to Thames's .798. With only a 0.16 differential, and with Jones playing 928 more games, Jones would have a better and more stable history of maintaining that overall on base plus slugging %, wouldn't you think?