Throwdowns > Completed

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  • April 04, 2008 12:33 PM ET

NMI Tourney III - Round 2: Best MLB Pitcher 1930 - 1939 (must have played at least 5 years during that time and only stats from 1930-39 count)

rstowe (232-67-17) vs Guru welcomes back Deuce!!!!! (72-16-6)
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My choice is Lefty Grove:

From 1930 - 1939 Lefty compiled the following stats:

1 MVP in 1931
6 All-Star selections
199 Wins and 76 Losses for a winning % of .724
2399 Innings Pitched
170 Complete Games
1313 Strikeouts
An ERA of 3.13
4 Wins and 2 Losses in 6 World Series starts
2 AL Pitching Triple Crowns (1930 and 31)
Led the AL in ERA in 7 out of those 10 seasons
Led the AL in WHIP in 5 out of those 10 seasons
5 20+ Win seasons out of 10 - including 1 season with 31 wins and only 4 loses


I'm going to follow your format if you don't mind...

My choice Carl Hubbell:

From 1930-1939 Carl compiled the following stats:

2 NL MVP's - 1933-1936
6 All Star selections - 1933-1938
188 Wins and 104 loses with a winning % of .623
2,596.7 Innings Pitched
197 Complete Games
1,280 Strikeouts
An ERA of 2.71
4 wins and 2 losses in 6 World Series starts
Led the league in ERA in 1933,1934 & 1936
Led the NL in Wins in 1933, 1936 & 1937
Also has 5 20+ winning seasons
31 Shutouts


Hubbell was my 2nd choice. This is closer than I thought. Gotta love baseball-reference.com!

One season really hurt Lefty's ERA - he only made 12 starts and had an ERA of 6.50. He had an arm injury.

Lefty also had 26 shutouts.

Hubbell never won his league's pitching triple crown (leading the league in Wins, ERA and Ks) - Lefty did it twice.

Lefty also led the league in Saves once - 1930 with a whopping 9 saves!

Lefty led the league in Complete Games 3 times - Hubbell once.

They each have 4 complete Games in World Series play.

Lefty had double-digits in losses 3 times during this time period - Hubbell had double-digit losses 7.

Lefty had 25 or more wins 3 times, Hubbel did that once as well.

Lefty also led the league in wins 3 times - same as Hubbell.

Lefty had more wins, less losses and the ERA is closer than it appears due to his injury season.


Both players numbers are actually closer then I imagined. Though Leftys numbers in the win column is a bit higher, but im not totally impressed. IN THIS CASE, STATS DO NOT TELL THE WHOLE STORY. During parts of these years Lefty was a member of the ferocious Philly Athletics in the early 30s. I feel their strengths on offense may have played a vital part in his performance.

Hubbells Giants werent as offensive savy as the Athletics. In the first 5 year span, the Leftys Athletics averaged 885.8 runs per season compared to Carls 775.6. Athletics lowest total in the first 5 years was 764 runs a season. The Giants went higher then 768 runs a season ONCE. Why does this matter? Carl posted an ERA lower then 2.65 for 4 consecutive season, YET only posted wins of 14,18,23 & 21. In those years, Carl posted MORE complete games then victories. This leads me to believe that his offense wasnt doing their jobs.

2 famous feats about Carl that left me in awe:
1934 All Star game he struck out Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Simmons & Cronin CONSECUTIVELY.

1936 he went 27 games where he won 24 CONSECUTIVE games with 3 no decisions. Still to this day, one of the greatest pitching feats in MLB history.


Good points about the offense behind these 2 great pitchers. However, the Giants' offense was good enough to reach the world series.

You mention all-star games.....Carl gave up 3 earned runs in .2 innings in the 1937 All-Star game on 3 hits (the other games he gave up 0 earned runs)...Lefty's only earned runs allowed in an all-star game came in the 1936 all-star game - 2 earned runs in 2 innings on 3 hits.

Hubbell in 8.2 innings pitched in all-star games gave up 8 hits, 3 earned runs, 5 walks and 10 strikeouts. Grove in 8 innings pitched gave up 10 hits, 2 earned runs, 2 walks and 8 strikeouts. So Grove has a 4 to 1 K/BB ratio and Hubbell has a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio. Grove gave up 2 more hits but 1 less earned run.

Man this is very close. They were both probably 1a and 1b when talking about the best pitcher in the 30s.


Giants pitching lead by Carl Hubbell helped the team reach the World Series, not their offense. One year, 1933, Giants starters combined ERA was 2.41. Led by Hubbells 1.66 ERA. In his teams only World Series winning year, they scored a meager 636 runs the whole season. Thats BARELY 4 runs a game.

Hubbell started 2 World Series games in 1933 and went 2-0. He pitched a shutout in BOTH games and did so by pitching 20 innings! This shows you just how dominate a pitcher he was.

Forget about Hubbells 1937 All Star appearance or his total All Star innings pitched. He struck out 5 of the GREATEST MLB hitters IN A ROW in one game. Arguably the top 3 hitters in Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig and Jimmie Foxx. Even you have to take a step back and say "WOW!" rstowe. Thats impressive. His 24 game winning streak will NEVER be broken. As I said, Wins and Losses dont tell the story.

Bottom line is, Carl Hubbell was much more dominate in the 1930's. Wins may not tell the whole story but the ERA does.

Comments (23) Add A Comment

April 4, 2008  12:36 PM ET
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good luck Guru.....I'm leaving in about an hour so don't know if I'll finish this today....but I would like to finish it by Sunday at noon if possible (at least my 3 arguments).

April 4, 2008  12:49 PM ET
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Man adding up those wins etc really sucked....enjoy this TD Guru.

April 4, 2008  12:58 PM ET
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Can't imagine who would be better than your choice, rstowe.

April 4, 2008  01:14 PM ET
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There are a couple....

April 4, 2008  01:35 PM ET
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you are right Stowe, took forever to add everything up lol

April 4, 2008  01:45 PM ET
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Their stats are pretty close. Using their stats which one would have won more Cy Young awards. Good luck picking the better of the two. I prefer to look at ERA as the deciding factor. Career ERA that is. Good job to the both of you on compiling the numbers.

April 4, 2008  01:57 PM ET
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just curious as to how you guys compiled the ERA...sometimes people take the average over the 9 seasons, but sometimes that leaves inaccuracies...its best to take the total innings pitched with the total runs over that time period and figure it out that way....sorry for the stupidity and worthlessness of this comment, I was just wondering though

April 4, 2008  01:58 PM ET
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and just curious guru, how can you have 2,596.7 innings, arent innings divided into thirds?

April 4, 2008  02:00 PM ET
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and just curious guru, how can you have 2,596.7 innings, arent innings divided into thirds?
gonets | 04/04/08, 01:58 PM

I followed baseball-reference.com and went with the numbers they gave gonets.

April 4, 2008  02:03 PM ET
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both great picks,cant wait to see how this turns out

April 4, 2008  02:03 PM ET
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just curious as to how you guys compiled the ERA...sometimes people take the average over the 9 seasons
gonets | 04/04/08, 01:57 PM

Hubbell: 782 Earn Runs x 9 innings = 7,038 divided by 2,596.7 innings = 2.71

April 4, 2008  02:07 PM ET
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for that decade Lefty Grove's ERA (if you take the average) is 3.13, if you take the actual (like i stated in my comment above) its 2.87 Thats actually better, and more accurate.

Carl Hubbell's is listed in the argument as 2.71 It was actually 2.64

April 4, 2008  02:08 PM ET
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just curious as to how you guys compiled the ERA...sometimes people take the average over the 9 seasons
gonets | 04/04/08, 01:57 PM

Hubbell: 782 Earn Runs x 9 innings = 7,038 divided by 2,596.7 innings = 2.71
The Guru | 04/04/08, 02:03 PM
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OK, my calculations were wrong, 2.71 is right

April 4, 2008  02:09 PM ET
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but Lefty's are right, cuz i did, ER * 9 / IP, and it came out to 2.87, not 3.13

April 4, 2008  02:10 PM ET
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and just curious guru, how can you have 2,596.7 innings, arent innings divided into thirds?
gonets | 04/04/08, 01:58 PM

I followed baseball-reference.com and went with the numbers they gave gonets.
The Guru | 04/04/08, 02:00 PM
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I went there and noticed that, my apologies...they must have done it differently back then

April 4, 2008  02:30 PM ET
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2/3 of an inning is 0.66 innings. or if you round to the nearest tenth, 0.7

April 4, 2008  03:10 PM ET
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Tough, Gorve has a better win %, but Hubbell has a lot of solid stats (ERA)

April 4, 2008  05:19 PM ET
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As a Cardinal fan, I want to say Dizzy Dean.

April 5, 2008  11:46 AM ET
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I thought about Dizzy but his numbers just don't compare to these 2.

 
April 6, 2008  08:41 AM ET
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Great TD Guru.....this is going to be very close.

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