SoccerNation Tourney Throwdown: Would you rather be in charge of Toronto FC or San Jose?
David James Brown said 04/14, 11:26 PM
You have to go with Toronto. Why? Three key elements: The management, the players, and the fans.
In management you have team President Mo Johnston, of Celtic and Rangers fame, who has a great soccer pedigree and a great evaluator of talent. Managing the team you have John Carver, who has managed Newcastle and recently, Leeds United.
The team is composed of great young talent from the US and Canada. Players such as Marvelle Wynne and Mo Edu regularly feature for the US while Jim Brennan and Greg Sutton play for Canada. This doesn't include Canadian U20s such as Gala, Hemming, and Lombardo. You can also count other talents such as former MLS MVP Amado Guevara, former French Nat Lauren Robert, ex QPR/Sunderland/WBrom striker Danny Dichio, and Rohan Ricketts who recently played for FA Cup Semi-Finalist Barnsley. All in all, lots of talent and not enough chemistry... but that can be solved.
Finally lets talk about the 12th man. The fans @ BMO field are awesome and their support will never waiver. No other team travels like they do (like how they packed Toyota Park a few weeks ago 3k plus) and no team can claim the crazy atmosphere BMO has currently of this proportion.
thehemogoblin... said 04/15, 12:31 AM
San Jose has the better set-up for the long term.
Frank Yallop is a proven MLS manager, having won 2 MLS Cups in his first tenure with the first Earthquakes, and coached the Canadian national team for a few years.
Joe Cannon is a proven MLS goalkeeper, with two MLS Keeper of the Year awards and an MLS Cup to his credit, along with a stint in France.
Nick Garcia, San Jose's de facto first round pick in the draft (he was traded straight up for it) has 200 games of MLS experience, 6 caps, and is 29 years old.
Ivan Guerrero is another key defender, with 69 international caps for Honduras and has 75 MLS games plus periods in Mexico and England.
San Jose will get a real stadium in the near future, as it is under construction now, and will begin play there in 2010. Right now, they're playing in transition, but they're more equipped for both now and the future.
The best part I feel is that San Jose took down Toronto in a tournament before this season. In fact, San Jose swept house against Toronto FC, Red Bull New York and the USL Charleston Battery in the Carolina Challenge Cup.
David James Brown said 04/15, 08:42 AM
While I think San Jose has some strong parts (Yallop, Cannon, Cochrane, O'Brien, Guerrero, Garcia), I would still say that Toronto's club has position by position better players. Maybe on paper San Jose's defense would be rated as being pretty good, but I am not sold on their midfield or their forward situation. Yallop was smart to stock his backline and keeper, but neglected there are six other positions on the field
Speaking of their forward situation, do they have anyone who can score? Gavin Glinton? Kei Kamara? John Cunliffe? I would imagine that Jeff Cunningham alone, who rides Toronto's bench, has more professional goals than most of SJ's forwards combined
Now I understand that they beat some undermanned injury conscious teams in the preseason, but this is for real. We all know preseason is to get match fit, not win trophies of any real standing. Make a run at the US Cup and we'll talk
Looking back at the SJ argument, I think they do have promise, but there is no way there is as much upside as Toronto. I don't see one player on San Jose's team I would say has as much promise as Edu
Lastly, speaking of upside. Toronto will get into CONCACAF Champions League play next year
thehemogoblin... said 04/15, 05:37 PM
I love how you talk about how there's six different positions on the field, and then go off on a tangent about Maurice Edu. There's ten positions on the field besides his. One player can't win soccer games, look at Landon Donovan in LA last year.
Who cares about how many goals Jeff Cunningham has? He's riding the bench on a horrid team. Maybe he has so many because he's now washed up.
Frank Yallop's shown the ability to lead his teams though. JOHN CARVER'S ONLY MANAGED SIX (6) GAMES IN HIS CAREER AND YOU EXPECT HIM TO LEAD A TEAM OUT OF THE CELLAR OF THE MLS? You've got to be kidding me. His tenure at Newcastle was a game, his tenure at Leeds 5. That's nothing compared to a 2 time MLS Cup winning coach who also spent years atop the Canadian National Team.
Lastly, TFC isn't guaranteed a spot in the Champions League, they still have to win the Canada Cup of Soccer before they punch their ticket. Don't count their chickens before they hatch.
David James Brown said 04/15, 10:53 PM
Point being, you are talking about being more equipped for the future. I would contend that there are more U-20 and U23 Team players (CAN and US) on TFCs team than SJ currently has. Couple that with proven European talent and I say TFC is set for the future, not SJ.
The funny part about Cunningham is that no matter how bad he is he is class compared to the garbage strike team Yallop has put together. Typing on caps lock can't deflate that argument. So if he sucks, I would say SJ is swallowing by the gallon.
Dude, Carver was first assistant at NUFC, and while that may not stack up to much for you, the MLS would love to have any European assistant as head coach over here. I mean lets be real, coaching 2 MLS championships and the CAN Men's team isn't that prestigious. Bruce Arena has a better track record and he couldn't manage in League 3.
Lastly, the question is who I would rather be in charge of a team that was contracted 2 years ago or a team that sells out their entire season with raving mad fans who have a chance to play on a regular basis in the CONCACAF Champions League, regardless of how they get there.
Your argument is based on bashing my case, not making one for SJ.
thehemogoblin... said 04/16, 01:59 AM
There is no "proven European talent". If they were proven in Europe, they'd still be there. As much as I love the MLS, it doesn't have the ability to draw major European players.
Bruce Arena won two Gold Cups as US Manager and got the US up to FOURTH in the international rankings at one point. There's no reason to say that he can't "manage a division 3 team".
Aren't Newcastle the perpetual underachievers of the EPL? Every year they shell out copious amounts of money and get little return... That's comparable to the prestige of being the bench coach for the Texas Rangers in baseball. Lots of prestige there.
The team was not contracted, it was relocated with the intentions of remaking it, like when the Cleveland Browns were taken to Baltimore. It was just that Anschutz Entertainment still wanted as 2 MLS teams, and that was the easiest way to do it. There was a lot of fan outrage when the 'Quakes were moved from San Jose the first time, and I know that and I wasn't even following soccer at that time.
San Jose does have promising attackers, contrary to your beliefs, with Ned Grabavoy, Kei Kamara, Shea Salinas and Gavin Glinton, I don't know why you're so down on those players.
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Comments (12)
Good luck
thehemogoblin... | 04/15/08, 12:37 AM
Report Offensive CommentI've got a leaning towards left for personal reasons and his argument thus far. I'll wait for conclusions though. Cool TD topic.
FCB82 | 04/15/08, 07:56 AM
Report Offensive Commentill wait on the rest of the arguments.
remember, send me or keeper the link and send it out through a group mail when its done
jeevs BS | 04/15/08, 02:50 PM
Report Offensive CommentIn the long run, Toronto. They have a good thing going with the Field and the Fans. They just need a better team and coach.
But if they can figure out a way to draw a big name as a designated player, they would be in business.
J. HOVA: BROOKLYN'S OWN | 04/15/08, 04:37 PM
Report Offensive CommentI say San Jose with their future field and their potential fanbase. Lew Wolff has some deep pockets too, although he spends very thriftly. He is proven to hire excellent people on the business side of the house, and this is what ultimately will separate San Jose from the rest of the MLS expansion teams.
Thugmeister | 04/15/08, 04:56 PM
Report Offensive CommentFTR: I love Sierra Nevada.
David James Brown | 04/15/08, 11:19 PM
Report Offensive CommentEasily, it's San Jose. They are a team that is pretty good already, especially for an expansion side. If they could get a goalscorer, they would have a chance to make the playoffs, and that would be huge.
Keeper | 04/16/08, 06:47 AM
Report Offensive CommentThrowdown over? That was faster that I thought.
Proven in Europe: Dichio 96 goals, Robert 67 goals
Hemo obviously haven't heard the premier names lining up to coach Canada like Dale Mitchell and Stephen Hart, probably knows more about pro wrestling from his brother Brett than he does soccer.
Contracted, relocated... who cares? They didn't have them for 2 years because they didn't have their act together.
I have seen the Galaxy play 2 games this season. One against TFC and one against SJ, if you think the Quakes have promising strikers you must have seen another game I haven't maybe they should have traded for Jimmy Conrad over Nick Garcia, because he currently has more goals (2) than SJ's entire team.
David James Brown | 04/16/08, 07:44 AM
Report Offensive Commentvery good arguments, but the toronto fans are crazy and fans make the team, so i gotta pick DJB just over you Hemo. Very close though
jeevs BS | 04/16/08, 05:58 PM
Report Offensive CommentGood TD. Goin with Toronto, though
Stauff Nation TB | 04/16/08, 06:01 PM
Report Offensive CommentGoing left. Good arguments.
no name at all | 04/16/08, 08:03 PM
Report Offensive CommentGreat Throwdown. Really good arguments from both sides. As serious as you both are trying to be, I have to laugh at a few lines.....like this one from the right:
thehemogoblin is aggratating said 04/16, 01:59 AM
There is no "proven European talent". If they were proven in Europe, they'd still be there.
lol. Aint that the truth. The US isn't exacty a hotbed of global influx as far as soccer is concerned. Someday it will be, but not there yet. I can agree that San Jose is no Inter Milan. Their matches have seemed a bit boring to alot of people, but not to me. The Quakes haven't scored a goal yet this season. That's because they're still working on team chemistry and haven't developed the dynamics of who they are yet. I don't see Toronto as being any better, and as far as Canadian Soccer itself goes, I'm seeing alot of waffling over important issues. Canada as a nation is not commited to building a Soccer Super Power. Not even close. I'm not impressed.
My vote will go to the right. Seemingly more knowledgable and shows stronger command of the facts. Good Job.
GoldenThread U-23 | 04/16/08, 10:30 PM
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