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- April 26, 2008 10:31 AM ET
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Is it right or wrong to attempt to cherry-pick a nation to represent in the Olympics when your home nation will not admit you to its team?
Bigalke said 04/26, 10:31 AM
A major sports website has had an ongoing saga with one of its writers. A recent convert to cycling, she has been attempting to find a country to represent at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. Because the American national team is loaded with world-class talent, this writer has had to go elsewhere to find a nation to accept her on their cycling team...
My question is this: When the nation of your citizenship denies you entry to its Olympic squad, is it fair to solicit other national athletic federations in an attempt to earn ANY way to the Olympics? Should a seeming non-citizen -- one who has never been to the solicited nation prior to such solicitation -- take the slot of someone else who IS a citizen?
I say that this is patently unfair and is WRONG. The Olympics reward those athletes who have reached the pinnacle in their home nation by giving them an opportunity to compete against other world-class athletes. If a person is not gifted enough to earn a spot through the standard channels, then perhaps that Olympic dream should be left as just that -- A DREAM...
Do you disagree? Would you take the spot of someone from Botswana or Liechtenstein to fulfill a dream? Then THROWDOWN...
rstowe said 04/26, 10:45 AM
Well Bigalke, it seems no one really wants to take this TD so I'll give it a shot.
I say it is fine. If a country is willing to give an athlete dual-citizenship (a requirement to be on any Olympic team is to be a citizen of that county) then good for that athlete.
How many US athletes don't get a chance to go to the Olympics only because of how stacked our teams are? Should an athlete be punished of not living the Olympic Dream just because of the country they are born in?
This would be very beneficial for the smaller countries or countries that don't have a presence in certain sports (winter olympics from equatorial countries for example). Most of those countries don't have enough people that qualify anyways, so bringing in someone else really isn't going to hurt anyone. If they couldn't make the Olympic team for their home country, chances are they won't be able to win a medal anyways so who does it really hurt?
Bigalke said 04/26, 11:07 AM
Athletes from the United States are losing spots & opportunities, certainly, but that can be pinned as much on the introduction of professional athletes as to the sheer numbers. Athletes should not be punished, of course -- but they already ARE being punished for maintaining their amateur status while the Olympics hoards professionals in many fields.
The problem is not one of dual-citizenship, nor is it one of willingness on the part of the surrogate nation in question. It is true that places like St. Kitts & Nevis don't have many prospective athletes, & that this specific columnist in question is required to amass UCI points in other races prior to the Olympics. What we saw with this instance, though, is someone essentially doing this NOT out of some long-standing Olympic dream, but for the "worldwide leader in sports" to get a story...
This isn't a matter of having any affinity for the host nation. Kathryn Bertine, the writer in question, sent email solicitations to nearly 100 different nations. When athletes go beyond their means just to participate in the Olympics, it cheapens the experience for everyone... whether a winner or not, these cherry-picking athletes are WRONG...
rstowe said 04/27, 08:37 AM
Well, she is a writer and what is a writer's job? To write a story. What better story than the Olympics?
This writer is on a deadline (probably 2). One deadline - the Olympics is this year. The second dealine would be for her story itself - immediately after the Olympics I'm guessing. In order to meet both, she has to "cherry pick" nations like Cain cherry-picks TDs (how's that for an argument holding water Cain?)....she has a limited time to get a nation to let her join their Olympic team so she doesn't have the time to go nation by nation until she finds one that lets her join.
How exactly does this cheapen the experience for everyone? You said yourself that she has to amass enough points in other races before "qualifying" so she wouldn't be taking the spot from another athlete without having the qualifications to make the team of whichever country lets her join.
Bigalke said 04/27, 12:58 PM
Okay, Stowe... you want to play that way...
So you think it is perfectly okay for the conglomerate that is ESPN to have an uninhibited path to affecting the outcome of sports. When media outlets get to mess around and attempt to get their writers into the Olympics at any cost, it DOES cheapen the concept down to its core...
By condoning such actions, you are effectively saying that the media gets to actively interfere and affect the outcome (in whatever small way) those athletic events which it covers. It doesn't matter if the sport is cycling, where individuals earn points at races throughout the year toward determining the number of athletes a nation can send... or if it is something like soccer, or gymnastics, or 10-meter platform diving.
St. Kitts & Nevis has a total GDP of $339 million; ESPN, part of the Disney conglomerate, has annual revenues over $9 billion. Bertine has advantages not offered to ANY ACTUAL RESIDENT of St. Kitts OR Nevis. ESPN has financed Bertine's way into races to attempt qualifying; it has paid for her to seek top-dollar training at Carmeichel Training Systems -- all advantages which she would NEVER have as a citizen of her cherry-picked nation...
rstowe said 04/28, 06:54 AM
So it is wrong for someone else to pay for the training and sponsorship of an athlethe then? So all these athletes in all these countries pay their own way? If you believe that I've got a bridge in New York for sale, cheap....
All athletes get someone else to pay for them to get to all the races (in this case) they need to do to earn enough points to qualify....all countries have councils or commitees to help offset the cost of the top athlete's qualifications....
So how does what this writer is doing affect any 1 athlete? Is she really keeping someone from St. Kitts off the team? Or is she helping St Kitts get 1 more athlete into the games (whether she is a true citizen or not)? How is this affecting any athlete during the games?
Are you sure Bertine is getting advantages not offered to any resident? If you can show that no resident is receiving any kind of sponsorship AT ALL I will forfeit immediately. Is her advantage better because she has ESPN behind her while an actual resident may only have the local grocery store financing her....guess what, too bad....that's the way sponsors work....is it right that Lebron gets Nike while Marbury has to make his own shoe?
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Tori Praver
Jessica White

Comments (20) Add A Comment
Good luck Big. I'll give you my best.
rstowe
Newport News , VA
Total Comments (21440)
Bigalke - I'll have to make my next argument tomorrow morning.
rstowe
Newport News , VA
Total Comments (21440)
No problem...
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
Total Comments (10885)
Vote <-----
rstowe argument doesn't hold water. Pathetic. Nice try though. You get a silver star!
Cain-Willis. In…
Fountain Of Youth, CA
Total Comments (3493)
rstowe argument doesn't hold water. Pathetic. Nice try though. You get a silver star!
Cain-Willis..MI..FU..TIC.. | 04/26/08, 11:14 AM
Yeah, well, you don't hold water!
You like that sucky put-down?
DetroitFan* BS:…
The Big House, MI
Total Comments (31755)
Zing, DetroitFan... zing...
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
Total Comments (10885)
Ouch. Wow! Just, ouch!
Cain-Willis. In…
Fountain Of Youth, CA
Total Comments (3493)
A recent convert to cycling should not be trying to force herself into the Olympics until she has trained enough to become world class. <-------------------------- leftus is rightus.
Cassidy's Pumpkins 4…
Whatsittoya, NO
Total Comments (14070)
No vote
YET!!!
djroxalot
Total Comments (15229)
You can't represent another delegation in the Olympics without-
A- Being a citizen of that nation
B- Being a resident of that nation for at least 5 years
C- Getting a release from your nation of citizenship
Ruby salutes…
Los Angeles , CA
Total Comments (2885)
Great TD Bigalke.....very interesting debate.
rstowe
Newport News , VA
Total Comments (21440)
So...which way did Cain vote?
Really good argument from rstowe- I thought this was going to be an easy one for Bigalke but right really did a fantastic job.( Loved the Cherry picking analogy) gotta go with it.
Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD
Total Comments (3685)
This TD took a weird turn ...
Either way, who are we to say what other countries should do to their teams. I doubt the people St. Kitts, or some other made up country, could care less.
Swayze Bandwagon Fan…
Hamburg , NY
Total Comments (740)
Bigalke, I gotta say it...I expected a better argument from you on this one. I thought you really needed to bring up the distinction between professional sports and the Olympics. If an athlete is allowed to compete for any country they choose, the core of the purpose of the Olympics vanishes. Would anyone be interested in the top 200 athletes in a given sport showing up, putting on the jersey of a random country and competing? Some would , but the majority? Probably not. That to me seems the core of the issue. Not amateur athletes being punished by competing with Pro's, the advantages of training in other circumstances, or the influence of ESPN.
The Ram
Pittsburgh , PA
Total Comments (8731)
Ram has a good point, but I'm going to go left in this one. As someone famous said in another comment thread, "tangents really muddies [the] argument", but some of those most basic points are still valid. I must admit, I thought this would be an open-and-shut case for Bigalke, but stowe put up an excellent counter.
Porkins
The Triangle, NC
Total Comments (9914)
There is nothing wrong with an athlete choosing to play for another nation, if he/she cannot make the US team. For example, I am US born but I have T &T Citizenship. I'm a dual citizen. Track athlete Ato Bolden ran for Trinidad and Tobago although he was a US citizen. He ran for Trinidad because he wasn't able to qualify for the US team. All he did was win two bronze medals for the Nation. Nothing wrong with that.
Vote to rstowe.
J. HOVA: PLAYS NO…
Brooklyn, NY
Total Comments (12972)
Good arguments. I agree with J.HOva, I don't think that there is anything wrong with playing for another nation, if he/she can't make the US team.
I have to give my vote to rstowe. Close voting, but that is who it goes to.
Dyhard:Homecoming…
Germantown, WI
Total Comments (32545)
The difference here, JHova, is not that people with dual-citizenship choose one over the other. The difference is when a person eschews their nation of citizenship to effectively "shop themselves" in hopes of landing a spot with ANY nation... this turns the Olympics into nothing more than a showcase for nations to exhibit non-citizen hired guns...
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
Total Comments (10885)
The only person I know who did that was Merlene Ottley. The Jamaican runner who ran for Slovenia because she was too old for the Jamaican team. She did shop herself.
J. HOVA: PLAYS NO…
Brooklyn, NY
Total Comments (12972)
Kathryn Bertine is the lady currently doing it, eschewing her American citizenship to solicit Olympic bids from nearly a hundred different countries just to write a story for ESPN...
Bigalke
Eugene, OR
Total Comments (10885)
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