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- May 02, 2008 03:22 PM ET
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Most important to high school sports team's success?-Talented Athletes, Team chemistry, Good coaching, or a Supportive Community?
Cassidy's Ultimate Sexy said 05/02, 03:22 PM
I am going to say GOOD COACHING.
Have you ever seen talented teams fail? I have.
Team chemistry comes from winning. Asks Cubs fans the value of a lovable loser clubhouse.
I am sure a majority of communities support their local high school teams, but to what end? Concessions and raffles could be bringing in revenue through the roof for new equipment, new field, better weight room, but will this ensure even an ounce of success onto the field? Not necessarily.
Good coaching is the backbone to getting an average team to play above their heads. Talented players need strategy, thorough practicing, and designed training and plays. This all starts and ends with the coach. If the coach doesnt know what he is doing it will have a trickle down effect onto the players, the chemistry, and even the community who will no doubt get tired of tirelessly supporting a losing program.
A couple of movies stick out in my mind where good coaching translated into success: We Are Marshall and Hoosiers.
Why do you think college coaches make millions of dollars these days n the big programs? They are the difference between a winner, a good team, and a losing program.
So, what say you?
Gruden crushes poker tables said 05/02, 03:30 PM
Team chemistry comes BEFORE winning. Not after. Take Jim Leyland for example. He's an amazing baseball coach, but until he gets his millionaire idiots in Detroit to come together as a team, they will continue to lose. So as talented as he is as a manager, his team is still below .500.
I've seen many teams come together in spite of poor coaching. They take it upon themselves to develop the chemistry to win.
Without team chemistry, every other aspect is totally wasted effort. You can spend all you want on the greatest coach ever, but if the team is full of hot shot selfish athletes who care nothing for the team, and only for themselves, the team goes nowhere.
The New York Yankees are another fine example of great coaching (last year), and a talented roster....who just can't seem to get it done because there's no chemistry. The Red Sox, on the other hand, play as if they were brothers.
It works the same way at the high school level. Either they have chemistry and win, or don't have it and lose. Chemistry is the #1 most important aspect.
Cassidy's Ultimate Sexy said 05/02, 03:44 PM
This is the definition of chemistry from WordNet: the way two individuals relate to each other.
I will go out on a limb & say that whether the chemistry is good or bad, it is formed in an environment. A winning environment tends to foster better bonhomie than a losing one. You can practice all you want b4 a season, but until you hit the field, the floor, the diamond, whatever, and see how you interact with each other on the field of competition against an opponent not called intersquad, you have no idea what type of TEAM you have. Besides, when have you heard of a losing team that had great chemistry that wasnt a beer softball league?
You cite Leyland as an amazing manager, but is that based on him getting the Pirates to overachieve? Why was he available to the Tigers in the first place? Not so amazing that was was unemployed previously. And even if he is indeed an amazing and talented manager, you make my point that without him what would the Pirates circa Barry Bonds era have been without him? Probably somewhere close to where Tony LaRussa's talented Cardinals team finished last season.
Coaching is the difference maker. Look what happened to Nebraska w/ Callahan? Zip=bad
Gruden crushes poker tables said 05/02, 03:57 PM
Poor Jim Leyland. Only a 3-time mgr of the year. He sucks. I guess you forgot that he won a World Series in Florida, and went to the World Series with nobodies in Detroit. Callahan is a terrible example, because he is a terrible head coach. Hardly a good choice for you to use.
I'll use Dematha's program in Washington DC. A high school athletic program that consistently wins in both football and basketball, regardless of who the coach is. The reason they win is that they take these kids from extremely poor backgrounds, and house them on campus. They force these kids to become a family. And the results is that they excel both on and off the court/field. In other words, they develop team CHEMISTRY. Other programs in the same area, with far more money to hire better coaching, and a far larger population to choose athetes from, can't come close to keeping up with the Dematha program. Because they don't do anything to develop the team chemistry necessary for success.
In the end, I'll use your own line from above: Besides, when have you heard of a losing team that had great chemistry that wasn't a beer softball league. Thanks for agreeing with me.
Cassidy's Ultimate Sexy said 05/02, 04:05 PM
Thats the point. A terrible head coach has a trickle down effect on EVERYTHING-chemistry, talent, community support. Callahan was an excellent example.
You cite Leyland as the mother of all baseball coaches yet turn a blind eye to how that exactly makes my point: Without Jim Leyland(GOOD COACHING), where would those Pirates, Marlins, or Tigers teams have been? They certainly werent relying on chemistry, because they were just a bunch of nobodies, right? Leyland was the difference and they won because of him, unless you want to fall back on your chemical argument that they won in spite of his great coaching because their chemistry was so good?
You use an isolated example of one HS in DC. Well how about the countless others that when their longtime coach retires the program goes into the tank? This happens despite everything else being equal-location, area talent, field, training facilities, etc.
Now we may be arguing just opinions here like which is better, apples or oranges? Well I am going to say in that case that one bad apple(coach) spoils the whole bunch(team).
Gruden crushes poker tables said 05/02, 04:17 PM
Actually, I cited Jim Leyland as a coach able to develop team chemistry with lesser talent on the roster.
And Dematha certainly isn't isolated. Long Beach Poly High School has been winning for 40 years. Cherry Creek High School, here in Colorado, has 162 state titles in various sports. Punahou High School in Hawaii has over 300. There's simply no way anyone can say this is all about the coach. Coaches change. But winning attitudes, and team chemistry, have been there regardless of coaching changes.
And it may be apples and oranges, but being from Florida, I'd still select oranges. All the coaching talent in the world (Joe Torre) is useless if he can't get the pampered millionaires known as the Yankees, and now the Dodgers (.500 ball), to play as a team.
Leaderboard
| Fan | W | L | T | Win % | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | DetroitFan* BS: Start Stanton! | 132 | 9 | 7 | 91.6% |
| 2 | Porkins: Catches bullets | 138 | 13 | 1 | 91.1% |
| 3 | Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD | 52 | 5 | 1 | 90.5% |
| 4 | The Ram | 138 | 17 | 4 | 88.1% |
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| 7 | Hyped78 | 112 | 19 | 5 | 84.2% |
| 8 | Dookie: Here We Go Steelers | 117 | 19 | 8 | 84.0% |
| 9 | [The] Coach | 97 | 18 | 5 | 82.9% |
| 10 | BSchwartz07 | 129 | 27 | 6 | 81.5% |
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Oluchi Onweagba
Melissa Haro
Comments (56) Add A Comment
Good thing Moderators cant vote. I dont want to hear any excuses.
Cassidy's Ultimate…
Whatsittoya, NO
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You can't go 5 minutes without brining out the b****?
Gruden crushes poker…
Elizabeth, CO
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That's a joke, by the way...
Gruden crushes poker…
Elizabeth, CO
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So this is about high school and both of you use professional sports as examples
Spak- is straight e…
Gods Country, MS
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Its about coaching. At all levels. Makes zero difference what level its at. But it would be stupid for me to discuss Air Academy High School on here.
Gruden crushes poker…
Elizabeth, CO
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Just a joke MLAM.
Spak- is straight e…
Gods Country, MS
Total Comments (931)
great examples and argument
Mets Fan:…
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in high school i think its talent....pro is where the argument lies....no vote for now...i'll wait for arguments
Dookie: Here We Go…
Pittsburgh , PA
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I cant go one minute without the B present, dont you know me?
Cassidy's Ultimate…
Whatsittoya, NO
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LOL, its been awhile. I forgot!
Gruden crushes poker…
Elizabeth, CO
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Vote for yourself so we can tie this baddy up Moderator.
Cassidy's Ultimate…
Whatsittoya, NO
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Done!
Gruden crushes poker…
Elizabeth, CO
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Why do I get friend invites and group invites every time I do a TD? Nothing personal against anyone who asks, but I have no desire to be part of a group.
Gruden crushes poker…
Elizabeth, CO
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Because when you do a TD you become visual to the masses for their recruitment purposes.
Cassidy's Ultimate…
Whatsittoya, NO
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its coaching, i can attest to that:
in my area (hamilton county) they dont allow any outside contributions or funds to pay coaches above the normal scales, in north georgia and areas such as knox county they do, as a result our local county teams have no hope . the difference is clearly visible. The local private schools are good but theyve now developed a tssaa class for themselves
Frank Pentangelli
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Your both wrong. On the high school level its community. The community support funnels money into the program that allows good coaching that fosters a winning attitude. That winning attitude is amplified to championship status because of chemistry. Have you ever seen an inner city public high school football team? If the high school is lucky enough to have a program that is. But some of these teams are so sad they look as bad as the impoverished area that the school is situated in.
You guys have to remember what it was like playing sports in high school. Unless you were a prodigy coach didn't let you go to the bathroom without permission. Good coaching is key and thats going to come from monies provided by the community.
Twizlamic
Folsom , CA
Total Comments (634)
its coaching, i can attest to that:
in my area (hamilton county) they dont allow any outside contributions or funds to pay coaches above the normal scales, in north georgia and areas such as knox county they do, as a result our local county teams have no hope . the difference is clearly visible. The local private schools are good but theyve now developed a tssaa class for themselves
Frank Pentangeli | 05/02/08, 04:07 PM
Frank I notice we're saying the same thing but pointing to opposite factors. Don't you think its the money that gets those better coaches. The coach won't go to an under-funded program especially a football program. Football programs are by far the most expensive to run compared to any other high-school sport.
Twizlamic
Folsom , CA
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I have to say the most important thing to high schools are the "cheerleaders."
Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD
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The best coaches in HS sports arent the highest paid. These guys all have regular jobs and this is just for fun.
Cassidy's Ultimate…
Whatsittoya, NO
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My softball baseball coach was a construction foreman. Coaching was his perverted way to check out us girls in sweaty short shorts. LOL
Cassidy's Ultimate…
Whatsittoya, NO
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