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J (Browns 19-0) Carbathlee won the Throwdown.

DYHARD SI DOUG HEFERNAN

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Who's the better pitcher this year...Cliff Lee or Edison Volquez?

J (Browns 19-0) Carbathlee said 05/24, 03:02 PM
As a Cleveland fan I hate to do it, but I'll take big Ed Volquez.

Lee- 6-1 1.37 ERA 0.79 WHIP and 6.98 K/9 (46 total)

Volquez- 7-1 1.34 ERA 1.21 WHIP and 11.04 K/9 (74 total)

Now, I know you will make a big deal about WHIP since its the ONLY thing Lee has over Volquez so I will shoot down that argument right now.

I honestly don't think the WHIP difference could be MORE irrelavent than it is now. Volquez has a much higher WHIP, but he also has 32 walks to Lee's 5. We aren't talking about Volquez giving up extra base hits or anything here, he is just walking people. And, when your K/9 is 11.04 you can afford the walks and get out of the inning scratchless.

Hows this stat. Volquez's BAA is .195

Lee's is .202

The ONLY reason Volquez has a higher WHIP is because of walks and I have no problem with it since he obviously doesn't let it get to his ERA and can get out of the trouble his walks cause.

**** Volquez has given up 1 less hit than Lee in 2 more starts.

If that STILL isn't enough for you. Lee has ONE lose. That ONE lose came to Volquez. Head to head Volquez beat Lee. If this was ever close, theres your tie breaker.

Stats Lee has today don't count.

DYHARD SI DOUG HEFERNAN said 05/24, 04:45 PM
I'm going to pick Cliff Lee, obviously.

Okay...you bring up the point of WHIP. Yes, there is a difference there, and that is a huge difference too. Anyway...along with that, Volquez only has a 0.03 better ERA than Lee does, which isn't much. Cliff Lee pitches in a way tougher league. In the AL, the pitcher doesn't hit, but in the NL the pitcher does hit, which really effects players. You can get one more strikeout a game by doing that. Lee has to face an extra batter called the DH. It makes it harder for the pitcher to get strikeouts, and have a lower BAA.

Look at that stat for walks. You point out a KEY stat that really helps me out. If you look at the walks, that is 28 MORE walks. Volquez averages 2.8 walks a game. Look at Lee....he gives up .625 walks a game. He gives up about 1 walk a game, and Volquez gives up about 3 walks a game. That is 2 extra base runners than Volquez is giving the opportunity to score.

Lee plays in the AL, which is a tough league to pitch against. Again, you get the DH in the AL, which hurts the BAA for the AL pitcher. That is why Lee's BAA is higher's than Volquez's BAA.

One lose? It is one LOSS.

Cliff Lee is the better pitcher.

J (Browns 19-0) Carbathlee said 05/24, 05:00 PM
Who cares about walks? I already said that. He hasn't let his walks get to his ERA. Dumb point.

When will people get over this AL NL thing? Hey, lets look a little closer.

In the Red's division compared to in the Tribe's division in runs

Cubs-279
Cardinals-232
Astros-243
Pirates-233
Brewers-209

Tigers-226
Twins-218
white sox-218
Royals-178

So now that that completely false argument is out of the way, we can see VOLQUEZ pitches in a MUCH tougher division. You tried using a point to your advantage but it basically came back and slapped you in the face.

Volquez has better stats AND pitches the tougher opponents.

That is a bad point anyway. The AL is having their lowest BA in a long time. They were never that much better than the NL. People make it into a MUCH bigger deal than it is. Lee pitches in THE WORST hitting division in the MLB while Volquez pitches in THE BEST hitting division in baseball and you try and say Lee has the harder way out? I'm curious to see your cover-up for that one.

Point is, walks don't mean much unless the pitcher lets them but Volquez' ERA shows the walks are no big deal.

Leads the league in Ks and ERA, Volquez is it.

DYHARD SI DOUG HEFERNAN said 05/24, 05:16 PM
One thing with the walks is that it gives extra base runners up that the pitcher has to worry about. Those walks are killer, and they can lose a game for you.

The Reds might play in a better division, but if you look at the league, they play in a worse league. Plus, the Indians play in a division where there are only 5 teams, as the Reds play in the only 6-team division in the MLB.

The Reds don't play in a much tougher division, they play in actually a worse division. Plus, if you look at the Indians division, they haven't really been playing up to what they are capable of playing.

Anyway, the Indians league (AL) is a tougher league, and that makes it tougher for Cliff Lee to get outs and allow less runs.

Because the NL Central scores more runs than the AL Central, you are going to say that he pitches tough opponents? 216 runs-AL 221 runs-NL

Okay...so the NL scored 5 more runs than the AL, but that doesn't really make it harder. The AL has the DH and that is one extra batter, which makes it tough for pitchers because if the walk someone, they have another batter coming up, not the pitcher.

Lee leads league the tough AL in ERA.

Lee is the better pitcher.

J (Browns 19-0) Carbathlee said 05/25, 11:29 AM
The NL has scored more runs than the AL. Can you please stop using the "AL is tougher than the NL" argument.

You aren't even arguing this. You are like a robot or dictionary.

" and that makes it tougher for Cliff Lee to get outs and allow less runs."

I would've never guessed? Thats USUALLY how baseballs played.

Vazquez leads the tough MLB in ERA and K's.

When I keep saying the NL is hitting better than the AL and giving you FACTS to back it up and you keep going with your argument it makes it REALLY hard to believe you have 14 votes. You're wrong, I've proved that but you keep going on about it.

Volquez and Lee is close. If you want a tiebreaker, I see NO better way than a head to head matchup which Volquez won.

Walks CAN kill a pitcher, BUT Volquez is so good at K's he doesn't let the walks effect him at all. Lee can't keep this control forever and when he loses it his ERA is going to dramatically rise because he isn't CAPABLE of K'ing batters like Volquez is.

In the long run, Volquez is going to be a star. Cliff Lee might just get re-sent to AAA. Lee has done this before. He gets hot and out of no where INCREDIBLY cold.

DYHARD SI DOUG HEFERNAN said 05/25, 12:02 PM
Why would I stop saying it when it is true. The pitchers have to bat in the NL and in the AL, you have 9 batters batting, not a pitcher.

Call me names, that's a good way to win.

Lee has a .03 worse ERA and you are talking about it like it is a 1+ worse ERA. Lee isn't that far off from Volquez, and when you look at the WHIP, it is clearly Lee.

Another thing I see wrong with your argument of K's, is that in 2 MORE starts, he is leading the league in K's. Plus, in 2 more starts than Lee, he has one more win? Lee is the better pitcher. Plus, wildness will catch up later. It always does. Volquez has put 32 people on base for FREE. Lee has put 5. Huge difference there, and you have to have defense behind you to be able to not have those runners score.

Why would a head-to-head matchup be a tiebreaker? That just means who's team scored the most runs, not who is the better pitcher. That isn't a good tiebreaker.

"so good at K's"

So because he has 11 strikeouts per game, he is the king of strikeouts....wrong. The walks are going to get to him, plus Volquez had 2 more starts where he struck out a lot of batters.

The walks is what is really going to kill Volquez.

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Who's the better pitcher this year...Cliff Lee or Edison Volquez?

DYHARD SI DOUG HEFERNAN beat J (Browns 19-0) Carbathlee 22 to 18

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