FanNation - The Republic of Sport

Bigalke said 06/01, 11:06 AM
Vandermeer's feat was great, certainly... but, while I think the most "unbreakable" record DOES rest in the hands of a pitcher, it isn't Johnny who holds that record...

No-hitters, in the end, are flukes of circumstance... and lightning merely struck twice for Vandermeer. But what happened in Chavez Ravine and throughout the NL in 1988 was neither fluky nor circumstantial, merely dominant. Orel Hershiser, ace for the Dodgers, went FIFTY-NINE consecutive innings without allowing his opponents to score to close out the season (and eight more innings into the playoffs... but that doesn't count toward the record books, unfortunately) for the eventual World Series champs.

I would argue that Vandermeer, in setting this record back in 1938, qualifies under your "pitchers just don't pitch as much today as they used and with bullpens being used like they are today" argument. The game has changed since Johnny went eighteen straight without allowing a hit... pitchers just don't get used like they used to (Vandermeer pitched these two FOUR DAYS apart!)


ANYONE can challenge this Hershiser record -- closer, starter, reliever. But no one has come close since that glorious late 1988 surge...

Bigalke said 06/01, 11:46 AM
What are we arguing here, Stowe? Consecutive no-hit INNINGS or GAMES? Because they are two very different things...

Forgetting the fluke factor (after all, Vander Meer's second no-hit game came on the first night game @ Ebbets Field... think THAT could've helped a little?), only having four instead of five days between starts allowed him to maintain more momentum into the second game. You mention the way some records are less likely "with bullpens being used like they are today"... and it is much harder to maintain fluke streakiness for three games than it is to string together the months of performances it would take as a reliever to match and surpass Hershiser. Brandon Webb, a starter, came the closest we have seen in some time... but STILL couldn't get three-quarters of the way there.

Both are tough records, certainly, to match... much less surpass... but all that is required to break Vander Meer's record is one sublime week in the spotlight... to break Hershiser a pitcher would need weeks and months of sustained brilliance. So many hacks over the years have had no-hitters that an odd hot streak could take this record. Dominating day after day after day is much more difficult.

Bigalke said 06/01, 12:12 PM
Look at it this way, then... which is more easy to TIE? Two no-hitters are not unfeasible... and then the pitcher could be saved indefinitely to play an easy team to attempt the third no-hitter. A player cannot hide when seeking to tie Hershiser's record. A half-season can yield a lot of potential bumps in the road, and it is much harder to sustain great play over a month or months than what amounts to three games...


The record can more easily be manipulated to be broken, as I have just shown... it is harder to "crack the code" of the 59 scoreless innings than it is of the three straight no-hitters. It can be done...


And just look at the topic sentence of the throwdown... which is the MOST "unbreakable"... of these two choices, you have either 27 consecutive innings of no-hit ball... or 59 consecutive innings of shutout ball... there's only one route to Stowe's choice; there are hundreds toward mine... but whether a starter goes seven straight games without allowing a run, or a reliever takes a half-season to get there, it is imminently harder to achieve those fifty-nine innings than working the assignments to accomplish three hitless wins in a row...