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- June 01, 2008 06:23 PM ET
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madler said 06/01, 06:23 PM
Best Bench using combination of Lakers and Celtics. List 1st argue later. Must have at least 2 from each team. Must have 2 big men, 3 wings/guards.
Big-Leon Powe
Big- PJ Brown
Wing-James Posey
Wing- Luke Walton
Guard- Sasha Vujacic
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 06/01, 07:17 PM
Big- Leon Powe- Celtics
Big- Ronny Turiaf- Lakers
Wing- James Posey- Celtics
Wing- Luke Walton- Lakers
Guard- Jordan Farmar- Lakers
So, my differences are: Farmar instead of Vujajic, and Turiaf instead of Brown. I wanted to have Cassell, but I don't think that he would fit in all that great with this team.
Some of these aren't the obvious differences, so please give me a chance to argue for my guys before you vote against me. Thanks.
madler said 06/01, 07:35 PM
first- PJ vs. Roney
in the playoffs brown clearly has outplayed turiaf. Brown played a significant role in the Conf. finals (over 17 min per) while Turiaf only played for short streches (10 min per). Both are good defenders and hustle players, but the difference is Brown can knock down open jumpers and Turiaf cannot. Brown is shooting almost 60% in the last two series (16-27) while Turiaf is shooting around 40% (9-22). Add in his experience and toughness and Brown is clearly better.
2nd- Farmar vs Vujajic
Defense is the difference. I do not know how or why but Sasha annoyed and pestered his way to stopping Manu in the Lakers 4 wins. Obviously he was not in the whole game and had alot of help and Manu did not shoot well, but Sasha needs to be given some credit. Also even though farmer can hit threes, Sasha is more of a threat to shoot and spreads the defense more for Kobe
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 06/01, 07:55 PM
In the playoffs, Brown has played much better than expectations, and I give him a lot of credit for that. However, look at some key stats from the season, and who averaged more:
Points- Turiaf
Rebounds- Turiaf
Assists- Turiaf
Steals- Turiaf
Blocks- Turiaf
FG %- Turiaf
Some of those categories are close, but Turiaf still puts up better numbers in all of them. Now, look at that for a second. When it comes to production, Turiaf completely outproduces Brown. Brown is a nice player, but I would take the guy who does everything better, which is Turiaf.
"Obviously he was not in the whole game and had alot of help and Manu did not shoot well"
As you said, he had a lot of help. Now, did Vujajic play good defense on Ginobili? Yes, but was he the sole player responsible for keeping Ginobili in check? As you said, no.
The main reason that I went with Farmar is that he is a PG. For the team, to go they need to have a point guard running it, and Farmar is that guy. Vujajic is a good player, but would he be able to run the point like Farmar could? Farmar completes the team. Look at a comparison of their production:
Points- Farmar
Rebounds- Farmar
Assists- Farmar
Steals- Farmar
FG %- Farmar
madler said 06/01, 08:16 PM
How can you compare season stats of Brown and Turiaf. Turiaf played 78 games (19 min per) Brown played 18 (12 min per)!!!!!!! Brown had just joined the team and was getting adjusted. In the playoffs when it mattered Brown outplayed Turiaf.
As I said in the previous post Sasha is better because of his defense. In the season Farmer had 0.3 more ppg and 0.1 more rpg while playing two more min per game. Also Sasha shot better from 3 and had almost 1/2 the turnovers (.72 per v. 1.32 per) In the playoffs where the games actually matter
PPG- Vujajic +3 (8.1 v. 5.1)
RPG-Vujajic +.8 (2.3 v. 1.5)
Efficiency-Vujajic +3.34 (7.07 v. 3.73)
Also Phil Jackson ( who is smarter than both of us) played Vujajic 3.7 min MORE in the playoffs and played Farmer 4.3 min LESS.
Phil knows Vujajic is better than Farmer and I will go with him
0x NBA/NFL Champion said 06/01, 08:37 PM
Well, if Brown is so much better than Turiaf, why didn't he get anything done in the regular season? He is 38 years old, and while he has totally outperformed expectations, which I give him all the credit in the world for, he isn't what he once was. Both are good picks, but I'd take the younger, more productive Turiaf over Brown.
"In the playoffs where the games actually matter"
Yes, the playoffs matter. But the regular season doesn't matter? If not for the regular season that the Lakers had, things could be totally different right now. The differences are small, but the fact is that Farmar outperformed Vujajic in EVERY category. Assist-wise, Farmar had 2.7 while Vujajic had just 1.
But, my main reasoning for Farmar is that a point guard is needed. You can't expect to win without one, it just won't work out very well. Vujajic is a good player, but can he run a team? Not like Farmar can. Farmar is the key to this team, the guy who can run the offense. Vujajic isn't a point guard.
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