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- June 04, 2008 11:27 AM ET
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Captain America said 06/04, 11:27 AM
I love how with all these current GM's they made all these fancy trades this and that, to get Shaq, Bibby, or Kidd and did not make it into the second round of the playoffs.
Joe Dumars compiled this team full of journeymen, convicts, unknowns and making them into a Championship winning team and a consistant Eastern Conference Finals team.
Flip Saunders its a great coach but lets face it 25 Conference Finals and no appearences in the NBA Finals? Well it just sounds like a curse to me look at T-Mac. So firing him correct thing to do.
Putting all his starters in the trading block, is the greatest thing a GM has done in the last few years! Who would have the guts to put their whole starting lineup which has a few all-stars and consistantly good players up on the chop block? He did and its to prove a point, nobody has a secure place on this team, as easily they were found its as easily they can be gone.
Sure you think Billups or Hamilton would do good on any other team, but I hate to say no. The system they run in Detroit its what keeps these players stats like this. Dont believe me? Look at Ben Wallace and what happend to his stats since he left Detroit.
More to Come!
Chosen1 said 06/04, 12:06 PM
First Dumars is a very good GM and that I would not argue.
However I think you are giving the Pistons system a little too much credit when you say guys like Rip would not be good anywhere else. Rip was an up and coming star with the Wizards. In his third year for the Wizards he averaged 20 ppg, 3.4 rpg, and 2.7 apg. Now as for Billups
Now yes the Pistons are always a top team but are they a team that wins it all? not really sure they have one it once in the 2000's but they are never a team that people say will win it all.
personally I thought of several GM's that I might argue over him but I will go with R.C. Buford who is the gm of the spurs. I will go ahead and let you know why I would take Buford over Dumars in my next two arguments. for now its lunch time though
Captain America said 06/05, 11:05 AM
OK I will give you one thing R.C. Buford might be the best GM in finding talent in the draft were nobody could see it. However the Pistons run a system were its almost Duke like. You need certain players at certain positions for it to work.
Hamilton is a great shooter no doubt about that, but its still never the fact that he is running thru screens to create most of his shots.
Rasheed was great in Portland but he was getting kicked out of every other game in Detroit he settled down more and created a better legacy on the league, thanks to the opportunity and no nonsense work ethic that Dumars instaled.
Billups you cannot say he is not a journeyman at all, he went thru 5 teams before he landed as a free agent in Detroit and flourished!
Big Ben was traded twice before he found his game in the city of Detroit.
Did anybody know about Prince, in the 2002 draft honestly.
Mcdyess was given an opportunity, if you dont remember he busted his leg bad and nobody wanted him and Dumars gave him a chance.
Not good Bench players? Did you not see the playoffs? Stuckey? Maxiell? Didnt they perform to a great degree? Flips just made terrible decisions down the stretch.
Chosen1 said 06/05, 07:19 PM
finding talent where people dont see it takes smarts and a little bit of thinking to do. he saw something in Parker that others didnt, heck he drafted Manu who he got with the second to the last pick overall in the draft. he drafted Scola 55th overall look how that pick turned out this year. with Buford we got to remember he was helping build the Spurs before he even became a gm. he was an assistant from 88 to 92 then left and came back in 94 and has been with the team in some position from then until the current.
also he makes good moves when it comes to bringing in role players. he brought in Brent Barry, Robert Horry as well as a number of other players who have played a good part off the bench to the success of the Spurs. he knows how to put together a team and so what if he doesn't threaten to trade his players. he has been a gm 6 seasons and the spurs won the nba finals 3 out of those 6 season. during his time as a gm the spurs have been the most successful franchise in the nba so why threaten to trade his entire team when every year they are a top pick to win it all?
Captain America said 06/05, 11:00 PM
Yes very true, but did you notice, who Dumars drafted? Maxiell, Stuckey two players who are young but have proven very productive this year. Obviously they are younger in age, and have not seen so many minutes because the players who are infront of the lineup.
However Maxiell did very well in the playoffs and had amazing defensive moments, one of them giving a nasty block on KG while KG was in a fast break going for the dunk. Stuckey averaged 10 points during the playoffs that is very productive considering he is a rookie. Manu did not do much these playoffs cause injuries, and Tony played pretty decently.
Dumars team has consistently made the East Finals and been to two finals in the past 6 years, with a bunch of players who nobody wanted, and made them into a fully functional team.
Dumars has the guts to what other coaches wont do. Put their star players on the block. He is saying nobody is that important in this team. This if I was a player would spark my inner gut feeling to prove the man wrong, and I believe that is whats gonna happen.
Dumars is not the best drafting but he can truly make one heck of a team, Pistons has been the force in the East the past 6 years.
Chosen1 said 06/06, 08:03 PM
the Pistons have been to the Finals twice in the last 6 seasons not bad. the spurs have been 3 times and won 3 now remind how many did the Pistons win? I think it was ummmmm 1. I guarantee you all the main players on the Pistons would still be in the NBA if the Pistons didn't go and get them. Dumars went and got a bunch of ex first round picks it is not like he was going and getting guys off the street. lets look at where some of this years roster was drafted
Billups 3rd
Rip 7th
Prince 23rd
Sheed 4th
McDyess 2nd
Maxiell 26th
Hayes 10th
Stuckey 15th
Affalo 27th
Dixon 17th
Hunter 10th
Ratliff 18th
all of those guys were drafted in the first round because someone saw talent in them. and you talk about how the Pistons have been so good for the 6 years as if the Spurs have been some second rate jokes. in the last 6 years the Spurs have won more championships than any other team. so not only can Buford evaluate talent but he sure can make a heck of a team because they have been the best force in the NBA the last 6 years
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Comments (12) Add A Comment
oops for some reason when I copied and pasted my argument from the program I was typing it on the part about billups didnt copy
Chosen1
Somewhere, US
Total Comments (1530)
Dude I mostly agree with you, but Rip was a 19-20 ppg when he was with the Wizards it was Jordan's ego that got Rip to Detroit
caveman626
Total Comments (457)
hey what does the play by play button do?
Chosen1
Somewhere, US
Total Comments (1530)
well he was actually wrong on a number of things the pistons have not won with unknowns for the most part they have won with ex lottery draft picks and other first round picks who had known talent and potential. also he mentioned one guy who went to another team and his numbers slipped but there aer some people I can think of that went to other teams and had success. like I said he is wrong on a couple things which I will get in to on my next two arguments
Chosen1
Somewhere, US
Total Comments (1530)
Not sure if Dumars is the 'best' GM-
but I do like his fire and 'refusal' to stay at the same level-
And though its much easier to build around a superstar- Kupchek (spelling?)
has obviously done MIRACLE work- getting gasol this year, drafting bynum & getting odom a few years ago
jgb
Total Comments (2212)
down 5 before anyone even gets to put a second argument. way to keep an open mind people and wait to see what people have to say
Chosen1
Somewhere, US
Total Comments (1530)
Buford doesn't have to do anything. They just keep fielding the same team year in and year out.
Gruden Needs Lovin…
Elizabeth, CO
Total Comments (10936)
I'm on your side chosen-
AND I threw a vote your way- to keep your spirits up.....lol
jgb
Total Comments (2212)
yea but who do you think put that team together? if people would wait until I get a chance to put in my argument they will see where I am going with this. for example Pops didnt even want to draft Parker but Buford was the guy who insisted Parker was going to be a star and there are a number of other things I will touch on. also the pistons really for the most part put the same team out year in and year out to
Billups 6 years with Pistons
Rip 6 years with Pistons
Prince 6 years with Pistons
McDyess 4 years with Pistons
Big Ben (I know he isnt there now) 6 years with Pistons
Rasheed 5 years with the Pistons
and the pistons dont use the bench players when they need to especially in the playoffs so for the most part their bench has not been that important which is why guys come and go and if you look at it that way the Spurs have had bench guys come and go to
Chosen1
Somewhere, US
Total Comments (1530)
O and excuse me for my rudeness but ive been busy with online classes and work, but Good Luck and its great to TD with you Chosen1.
Captain America
Total Comments (1741)
He's very good, but firing Saunders was very stupid...
Jimmer69 IS Darth…
Black Hawk , SD
Total Comments (5984)
Like I said Flip is a great coach no doubt just like T-Mac is a great player but they cant make it to the Finals! I dont want that as a GM
Captain America
Total Comments (1741)
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