FanNation - The Republic of Sport

gonets said 06/09, 08:41 PM
I say 300, for multiple reasons.

First (and i may not get to all of my reasons in this first argument), is that there is only one person to have 500 saves (Hoffman, 538), 3 with 400 or more (Lee Smith, Rivera, and Johnny Franco). There are 17 players with 300 or more saves. Ok, so 400 is rare, 500 even rarer, but you might be thinking that 300 is not too rare. Well let's compare:

There are 23 players with 300 wins at least, and there are 24 players with at least 500 HRs. So 300 saves fits perfectly because there are only 21 players that have reached that mark. Now granted, in the wins and HRs department, steroids may have been a factor (and it could have for saves also), but regardless of whether it was or not, the numbers are still there.

And look at the rest of the names on the 17 who have between 300 and 400. Some include Eckersley, Billy Wagner, Rollie Fingers, Todd Jones, Doug Jones, Goose Gossage, Bruce Sutter, and more. It is truly the elite of the saves world. Just as it is a big accomplishment to hit 500 HRs (Manny), 600 (Griffey), and 700 (Mr. Big-Head), so it is a huge accomplishment to reach 300, 400, and 500 saves. Rarified air, indeed.

gonets said 06/09, 10:52 PM
"What does steroids have anything to do with this? Is that the topic.....no. Steroids or not, these athletes have gotten to good number of saves. "

I agree with that statement. But I was comparing the stats with those for HRs, and some HR numbers are tainted. Thats all I meant.

"It is hard to get 250 saves. That takes years to accumulate. "

But it isnt hard to accumulate 300 saves??? And what does 250 being half of 500 have anything to do with it?? No one makes a big deal when someone swats number 350, which is half of 700 HRs.

"I'm confused, you say there are 17 players with 300 or more saves, but then you go on and say there are only 21 palyers that have reached that mark. What are you saying?"

I said there were 17 with 300-400 saves, 3 with 400+ and one with over 500. So its 21 players over 300 saves. That is the elite of the elite right there.

The average number for saves in a season is roughly around 30. So it would take about 10 years to reach 300. But you have to realize the closer doesnt pitch all the time, and he sometimes blows saves. Plus, not every closer is going to get 30 saves on a consistent basis. Out of space. More to come.

gonets said 06/09, 11:34 PM
"It doesn't really matter if 300 is harder to get to. 250 is a good number because between 20 and 30 players got that number, the same as wins and home runs."

And 21 ISN'T between 20 and 30? If you incude too many categories, it no longer becomes elite. Yes, 250 is a milestone, but it DOES NOT hold the same value as 300 saves would. 400 HRs is a milestone, but it DOES NOT hold the same wieght as 500. 200 wins is a milestone, but it DOES NOT have as much weight as 300. The cut off for elite stauts in HRs and wins is 300 and 500, respectively. For saves it is 300, period.

Gagne got 82 consecutive saves but has only 187 total. He could very well hit 250 before his career is done, but 300? No way. In an age where closers can become starters, and starters can become closers (and maybe back to starters again) a la Smoltz, Brett Myers, Gagne, and others, it makes it THAT much harder to hit 300 saves.

300 wins, 500 HRs, 300 saves. Elite. Any way you look at it.