Throwdowns > Completed

Views
11
Comments
18
  • June 14, 2008 04:10 PM ET

TDAholics MLB Tourney:Round 2:Dyhard Vs Nick:Who Should Be The Starters For The NL In The All-Star Game? SP And CP Included

Dyhard:Homecoming Week (250-186-35) vs Nickb23- It's a Girl! (125-38-14)
10
Votes
11
Votes
10
Votes
11
Votes


Stats as of 6/13/08.

C-Brian McCann (.384 OBP/.307 BA/12 HR/38 RBI) Better OBP and BA than Soto, but more RBI and HR than Martin.

1B-Lance Berkman (367 BA/19 HR/57 RBI) Do I need to explain?

2B-Chase Utley (317 BA/22 HR/61 RBI) I don't need to explain this one either.

3B-Chipper Jones (500 OBP/414 BA/15 HR/41 RBI) No explanation needed.

SS-Hanley Ramirez (388 OBP/298 BA/15 HR/32 RBI) More HR, more steals, more walks and a better OBP than Miguel Tejada.

LF-Pat Burrell (428 OBP/284 BA/17 HR/43 RBI/55 walks/51 SO's/218 ABs)Better OBP, more walks, same amount of HRs as Braun and has more HRs than Holliday in LESS ABs.

CF-Nate McClouth (386 OBP/298BA/14 HR/46 RBI/31 walks) He has better stats than the rest of the CFs, except BA which he is in second place of.

RF-Ryan Ludwick (382 OBP/312 BA/24 walks/16 HR/52 RBI/205 AB) Has better stats than Xavier Nady in 36 LESS ABs.

SP-Edison Volquez (9-2/96 SO/1.56 ERA/10.67 Ks per 9/1.17 WHIP) He is a great pitcher and should the starting pitcher of the all-star game.

CP-Brad Lidge (18 SVs/0.93 ERA/11.48 Ks per 9/1.00 WHIP) He is a great closer and should be in the all-star game.

That is my NL starters.


First let me say, you did a great job, only differences..

C- Geovanny Soto, ChC- Soto has more homers and RBI's but McCann has the victory in other categories. The thing is, they both have very, very similar numbers in the offensive and defensive categories. So I brought it to a third and important but rarely noticed factor for being a catcher. Their ability to catch the staff and the difference they make in this area. Soto has a catcher's ERA of 3.53 (down from the team average of 3.63) McCann has a 3.93 (up from the team average of 3.75) . The Cubbies have the best record in baseball and Soto has been a huge reason why.

LF- Ryan Braun, Mil- At the end of the day, you want one thing from your corner outfielder, bring home runs. The amount of at bats do not matter, it is plate appearances that does. They have only 11 of those seperating them. Who cares if your right fielder walks alot if he doesn't score extra to make up for it. In 2 less games Braun has scored 2 less runs but driven in 8 more than Burrell. Braun is doing exactly what a team asks its corner outfielder to do, which is bring home runs for his team. The walks don't matter much if you don't score from them.


Alright our differences are Soto vs McCann and Burrell vs Braun.

I will start out with Soto vs McCann first.

I picked McCann for the reason of OBP and BA...which is what you want in a player. He still has good RBI numbers but getting on base is what an all-star is.

The catcher doesn't always help out the pitching staff most of the time, the catcher ISN'T calling the pitches, the coaches are, but the catcher is relaying that to the pitcher.

McCann has good stats for a catcher, and has been doing well this year and deserves to be the starter for the NL in the All-Star game.

Onto the Ryan Braun-Pat Burrell Matchup.

Ryan Braun has good stats, but you say that you want an outfielder to bring home runs for a team, and Braun has the SAME amount of home runs has Pat Burrell does which is 17. Burrell gets on base more and he also has more walks.

Braun has played in 1 less game not 2, but has more plate appearances which means that that he has scored less runs in more PAs than Burrell.

Braun has a lot more at-bats than Burrell but Braun only has 8 more RBIs. It shouldn't be that few separating them.

Pat Burrell should be starting LF for the NL All-star team.


OK, so the best team in baseball does not have ONE player worthy of starting the All-Star game? NO.

Soto is proving to be a great addition to this Cubs team and he is helping them in every way possible. Great offense, great defense....and yes with the staff.

The coaches do not call the pitches, the catcher does. They study the film with the coaches but when the game comes, they call the game. They calm down the pitcher, they know hitters tendencies. Soto is proving to be one of the best in the league at every facet of being a catcher.

Soto has been the best catcher in the NL.

I did not say hit home runs, that is a highly overrated stat. I said drive home runs or drive in runs, is that better. Braun is better at that than Burrell

It is not at bats that matter but PA's. A walk is nice but the Phillies don't want him to walk when they have guys on and they need those guys to score.

I got an interesting stat.... Braun with runners in scoring position .333
3 HR's 36 RBI's Burrell .306 3 HR's 25 RBI's

Burrell has good numbers. Braun is down right clutch. Like I said these guys have 1 job, bring home runners. Braun is better at it.


The Cubs can always have other pitchers and Soto can be a back up. I'm not saying that only one player is worthy, I'm saying only one player is worthy of starting the all-star game from the Cubs.

If you watch the game...the coaches are relaying the signs to the catcher, and the catcher gives the pitch that the pitcher should throw, to the pitcher. Watch the coaches in the dugout...the call most pitches, but the catcher calls some.

McCann is the best catcher in the NL.

"Braun is doing exactly what a team asks its corner outfielder to do, which is bring home runs for his team"

Yes...you said hit home runs. Burrell has the SAME amount of HRs. Plus, Burrell gets on base more and gets a hit more than Braun. That is a good thing for teams and players.

When you get on base with a walk, you are giving your team an better opportunity to score runs, especially when no one is on base.

Braun has more stikeouts than walks, but Burrell had 4 more walks than strikeouts. That means that he doesn't strikeout much compared to getting on base for walks.

I want a player that gets on base a lot for my team, because with these all-starts, that will be a run.


You confuse me, you said one cub should start but then don't have any Cubs starting.

I am telling you right know, coaches help or not, the catcher DOES make a difference. Have you ever heard a guy after a no-hitter. He will say the catcher called a great game. Well if the catcher didn't call the game, why didn't he give coaches the credit. The coaches are not relaying signals for pitches, they will give pitch-out calls, tell him to pitch around a guy or tell him to give a guy a free pass. They are giving the catcher a heads up on what the see.

Soto has been a huge key to the best team in baseball and should be the starter.

"bring home runs"

This is what I said. NOT hit home runs.

Look walks are great, but Pat Burrell has a guy who hits .266 with a pedestrian 21 RBI's hitting after him, the Phillies want him to bring home those runners. He isn't the leadoff hitter, he hits in the 5 hole. They want him to find a pitch and hit it.

Braun may strikeout more and he may get on less, because he is trying to do what the Brewers ask of him. DRIVE in runs, at the time we started he had 8 more than Burrell. Also .333 and 36 RBI's with runners in scoring postion is just money.

June 14, 2008  04:18 PM ET

good luck nick

June 14, 2008  05:04 PM ET

good luck dyhard.

June 14, 2008  05:05 PM ET

I'll get to this tomorrow...will be gone tonight.

June 14, 2008  05:07 PM ET

I will be as well, so that works out for both of us.

June 14, 2008  05:39 PM ET

Woah! McClouth? No way he gets voted in. And neither of you have any Mets. As long as its a fan vote, there will always be deserving players left out and the same guys will keep making it who play for big name teams but are very overrated.

June 14, 2008  05:57 PM ET

pat 'the bat' burrell should start.

June 14, 2008  06:18 PM ET

EFB- they dont have a lot of teams ... this is just the starters ... so don't worry, they will sneak an undeserving Met in on the bench.

June 14, 2008  11:03 PM ET

Well, this is interesting.

June 15, 2008  12:01 AM ET

I hope Burrel makes it. He's been tearing it up since the midway point of last year. He deserves it.

June 16, 2008  05:28 PM ET

What does that mean DFan?

June 16, 2008  05:46 PM ET

What does that mean DFan?
dyhard:7 wins until 200 | 06/16/08, 05:28 PM

I was wondering the same thing. Dfan doesn't come off as a big fan of nickb23.

June 16, 2008  06:21 PM ET

I guess not...lol

June 16, 2008  06:41 PM ET

Good times dyhard and good luck. Hopefully all the phillies fans got their homer voting out the way.

June 16, 2008  07:26 PM ET

Hm. The "calling pitches argument" is not exactly accurate. Sometimes coaches will lay out a plan for younger catchers, in effect eliminating the need for the catcher to call the game, but veteran catchers are often the ones making the calls.

Anyway, I think Nick did a great job with an uphill argument, but Burrell has just been too good. WIth 12 fewer PA, his production is as good as Braun's, and he has a big lead in OPS.

The arguments on the right definitely made me stop and think about this one, but in the end, dyhard's list is just a hair stronger.

Nice job guys.

June 16, 2008  07:30 PM ET

Thanks for your insight porkins and dyhard like I told you before, great list.

June 16, 2008  09:13 PM ET

Great arguments but I vote right based on the better catcher.

June 16, 2008  11:06 PM ET

Great job nick.

 
June 17, 2008  05:40 PM ET

I would go with Soto over McCann in this one, and as big a Brewers fan I am I have to say Burrell over Braun based on who is more deserving... ultimately, though, I envision Braun being the one to get in over Burrell. The arguments were tight on each side, but that gaffe about the Cubs by dyhard pointed out by nick in the last argument was crucial. To say that the Cubs deserve a starter and then not to provide one is damaging to an argument...

Ultimately I see this one playing stronger to the right based on a slightly better argument and an overall more likely list...

Comment

Remember to keep your posts clean. Profanity will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.


Leaderboard

  Fan W L T Win %
1 DetroitFan* BS: Start Stanton! 132 9 7 91.6%
2 Porkins 138 13 1 91.1%
3 Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD 52 5 1 90.5%
4 The Ram 139 17 4 88.1%
5 Foosball 70 9 2 87.7%
6 Philly-- www.sportsnoise.com 74 11 4 85.4%
7 Hyped78 116 19 5 84.6%
8 Dookie: Here We Go Steelers 117 19 8 84.0%
9 [The] Coach 97 18 5 82.9%
10 BSchwartz07 129 27 6 81.5%

Truth & Rumors

MOST POPULAR

  1. 1
    Sabathia, Burnett top Yankee wish list
    Views
    4936
    Comments
    98
  2. 2
    Aikman: Cowboys need to right ship
    Views
    3991
    Comments
    60
  3. 3
    Giants interested in Gonzalez
    Views
    5381
    Comments
    56
  4. 4
    Cowboys bringing Jones along slowly
    Views
    2008
    Comments
    32
  5. 5
    Fulmer ready for heat after loss
    Views
    3662
    Comments
    26

Weekly Most Active Users

Comments + Blog Posts + Throwdowns

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5
  6. 6
  7. 7
  8. 8
  9. 9

Message Boards

  1. NCAAF > General NCAAF

    This years most overrated team
    Views
    331
    Replies
    20
  2. NCAAF > General NCAAF

    which teams deserve to be…
    Views
    152
    Replies
    15
  3. NCAAF > General NCAAF

    Big Ten - Changing of the…
    Views
    111
    Replies
    14

Blogs