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  • June 16, 2008 12:07 PM ET

Elite TD'RS TOURNEY Round 1: Offensively, Besides Devin Hester, and Adrian Peterson, Who Is the Most Dangerous NFL Player?

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers (117-19-8) vs Bigalke (105-35-15)
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I'll choose none other than Randy Moss.

(Pardon me John Madden while I steal Randy's arse from you for 3600 characters of butt kissing)

Randy Moss stands 6'4" 210 pounds and has 4.2 speed in the 40 yard dash.

Moss effects defensive play calling like no other player today (and arguably ever). You constantly hear announcers pointing out that Moss is drawing a corner with safety help deep and a linebacker shading over to protect against the slant. By just being on the field, he helps his other teammates get open due to mismatches. Case in point: Moss is so dangerous and drew so much attention that he helped Wes Welker have a career year.

In only 10 seasons, Moss has 774 receptions for 12,193 yards, and already has 124 TD receptions (good for 4th all time already!)

Randy has been the catalyst on two of the top offensive teams in NFL history (98 Vikings and 2007 Patriots).

All this and I haven't even mentioned his career year where he set the NFL single season TD reception mark. Moss' stats in 2007 were mind boggling:

98 receptions for 1493 yards and 23 touchdowns. He averaged 15.2 yards per reception, and more importantly, he averaged 1.43 TDs PER GAME!

Good luck Bigalke!


Randy Moss was a great player in 2007, no doubt. However, his game is predicated on playing one type of game -- the flanker on the go...

The MOST dangerous NFL offensive player is far more versatile, posing a threat from the backfield or the slot. He caught only eight fewer balls than Moss, & still was able to rush for the third-most yards in the NFL in 2007. While his numbers are not always all flash, he is nonetheless the catalyst that gets his offense humming. Moss may have put up gaudy numbers with Brady passing to him, but the Patriots' offense was effective long before Randy came to town...

My choice, on the other hand, is the guy who has kept his team's offense proficient despite injuries at quarterback, locker-room distractions & the coming & going of key personnel. He is consistently a threat as both a runner AND a receiver, a top-ten running back for the past several seasons & the preeminent receiving tailback since Marshall Faulk retired...

Of whom do I speak? But of course! None other than...




Brian Westbrook of the Eagles...

RUSHING: 278 att, 1333 yd (4.8 avg), 7 TD
RECEIVING: 90 rec, 771 yd (8.6 avg) 5 TD


Not as flashy as Moss... but overall more DANGEROUS...


A couple corrections I'd like to make to your argument before I continue:
1. Randy Moss was great in many years besides 2007 or he wouldn't have the career numbers he does
2. The Patriots did not have the passing attack until Moss showed up (Brady's career high TDs before 07? 28 - 22 less than 2007 - Moss had 23; coincidence? I think not)

Good pick with Westbrook -he's a very underrated player
But underrated doesn't equal most dangerous.

Since you put up 2007 number's, we'll examine those first:

Westbrook had 368 touches and scored 12 times.
Moss had 98 touches and scored 23 times

Westbrook scored about 1 time for every 31 times he touched the football
Moss scored nearly 1 time every every 4 times he got the ball

Dangerous, to me, is the person who has the ability to score every time he touches the ball.
Moss obviously has the much higher ratio in that department.

What about the ability to break the long one?
For his career, Wesbrook averaged 4.7 yds/carry and 9.2 ypc. Add them up and you still don't have Moss' 15.8 ypc.

You made my argument for me sayin moss only has the flanker on the go-defenses know what's coming, and they still can't stop him


The question is, can Moss do what he does best without a balancing receiver(s)? In New England Wes Welker & Donte Stallworth also showed up in town... and in Minnesota he had Cris Carter lining up opposite. I concur that Moss has big numbers, no doubt... but that is more an indication of his one role. He does it well, perhaps better than anyone in the business. But as far as a versatile multi-faceted DANGER he falls short.

What IS dangerous? It is not remaining in one static role & being really good at that role when the attention isn't too thick. That is, ultimately, a quite conservative path to big numbers. Being dangerous, rather, is being able to attack defenses from all angles, whether from the backfield or receiving. Westbrook currently does that better than anyone in the business...

You mention those averages and stats... well how about these?

Total offensive yards per game:
Moss -- 80.2
Westbrook -- 94.0

Remember, having speed is something defenses can account for... as we saw in Moss' wasted time with the Raiders. But Westbrook has proven far more resilient when personnel issues have emerged. He simply gets the job done both rushing & receiving... he is more dangerous.


Bigalke, I think you just put Welker and Stallworth in the same sentence as Cris Carter

You're saying Welker and Stallworth made Moss. I'm going to PROVE Moss made Welker and Stallworth.

Before Moss (B.M.), Wes's career #s: 96 for 1121 yards 1 TD
After Moss(A.M.) 2007 #s: 112 for 1175 yards 8 TDs

Total off yds/game:
Moss 80.2
Westbrook 94.0
but let's look at avgs:
Moss touches per game: 5 -Yards per touch: 16 -Touches per TD: 6.42
Westbrook's:16 -Yds/Touch: 5.88 -Touches per TD: 15.29

What is more DANGEROUS -yards or scores? Last I looked, only points counted towards your final score, not yards.

You see, with Moss being as DANGEROUS as he his(a threat to score a touchdown every time he touches the ball), defenses have to compensate by doubling and triple teaming Moss

You're definition of Dangerous sounds like versatile. Yes, Westbrook is more versatile (he's a runningback who can catch) however, Dangerous does not = versatile

Dangerous is whether defenses have nightmares trying to figure out ways to stop you. It's whether you have the ability to score every time you touch the ball. It's whether you can actually be stopped

Dangerous is RANDY MOSS!


It is not as if defenses don't know the formula for stopping Moss -- as his 2007 playoff slump showed us. Moss indeed HAS proven he can be stopped. Just look @ each player's most recent postseason:

Moss (2007): 3 gm, 7 rec, 94 yds, 1 TD
Westbrook (2006): 2 gm, 33 rush, 257 yds, 3 TD; 5 rec, 17 yds


When it counts most, Westbrook steps up as a far greater weapon than does Moss. Indeed, being dangerous DOES require a flexibility that Moss simply doesn't have. Defenses can key in on speed in the playoffs. But if Westbrook is having a bad day on the ground, he can take a pass to get more room in space. Dangerous IS giving opposing defenses nightmares... because they don't know where you will be lining up next...

Dangerous is more than simply picking up scores. It can also mean keeping seeming three-&-outs alive with first downs. Westbrook, despite his stats, is more dangerous. Moss may get the touchdowns, but Brian keeps drives alive. With 104 touches for first downs (tops in the NFL), Westbrook provides more variance & danger than merely the long bomb. Remember, speed can be diffused, & drives can be dampened, without a DANGER like Westbrook to keep defenses off-balance & honest...

June 16, 2008  01:13 PM ET

I didn't need the John Madden visual.

June 16, 2008  01:17 PM ET

Devin Hester? The man was a terrible offensive player last year.

June 16, 2008  01:18 PM ET

Doing well on kick and punt returns don't necessarily make a great offensive weapon.

June 16, 2008  02:07 PM ET

Devin Hester? The man was a terrible offensive player last year.

EagleH8r (is Joe Crede...shhh) | 06/16/08, 01:17 PM

that was the title as selected by us for this tourney

June 16, 2008  02:09 PM ET

PACMAN,, he might pull out a gun and shot someone like Billy Cole did in the Last Boy Scout

June 16, 2008  02:19 PM ET

Come on Duq, you and I both know that the best offensive weapon in the NFL, including these two, is Marvel Smith.

June 16, 2008  02:20 PM ET

LT

June 16, 2008  02:20 PM ET

Devin Hester? The man was a terrible offensive player last year.
EagleH8r (is Joe Crede...shhh) | 06/16/08, 01:17 PM

I guess they mean to keep the players, offensive players. Not necessarily saying that Hester is an offensive player.

June 16, 2008  02:33 PM ET

RAY LEWIS IN A LIMO FTW!

June 16, 2008  02:33 PM ET

Sorry..that joke is kinda old.

June 16, 2008  02:33 PM ET

Vinny Testaverde anywhere he lines up on the field.

June 16, 2008  02:43 PM ET

I have one in mind but i'll wait for bigalke.

June 16, 2008  02:45 PM ET

RAY LEWIS IN A LIMO FTW!

ArmchairAthlete Is Wall-E | 06/16/08, 02:33 PM


I was all ready to whip out a Pac Man joke featuring Mike Vick, but forget it.

June 16, 2008  03:46 PM ET

haha yea, there are a lot of jokes you can make...but seeing as this is a tourney...i figured i'd play it straight

June 16, 2008  04:15 PM ET

Well, I just defeated Foosball so I guess I got winner. Good luck to the both of you.

June 16, 2008  11:58 PM ET

Rex Grossman, to the Bears

June 17, 2008  10:56 AM ET

This is a tough call. I completely agree that Moss is the most dangerous WR, but someone has to throw him the ball. Westbrook, by virtue of being an RB gets to make things happen on his own more often.

The arguments are great on both sides, but I'm leaning right for now. I'll wait for finals.

June 17, 2008  11:30 AM ET

Very good argument from both. Congrats to both, still undecided. Hard to imagine this is just the 1st round...looks like a final and deserves more votes!!!

June 17, 2008  11:39 AM ET

wow, my head is spinning...after reading Duq's first argument, i wanted to vote for him, then bigalke, then Duq, then bigalke, etc..im undecided

 
June 17, 2008  11:44 AM ET

This was very close, very very close....Moss is very dangerous but he is dangerous in 1 aspect...Westbrook is multi-faceted...

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