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Good luck, jeevs...

good luck

Contracts and such moves should be made before tournaments, or after them. Not during the tourneys themselves.

I didn't like to hear Scolari's move to Chelsea. He should've made that clear before the Euro Championships, or wait until the final game. Same for all this Ronaldo speculation.

Deco went to Barcelona too, after the game with the Czechs. It was reported as "personal troubles", but he probably went to speak about his future.

This doesn't do any good for any team. They should be focusing and concentrating on why they're there, why they're playing.

But great arguments on both parts, waiting for the next argument from each side.

getting paid is very important, how are you going to pay your bills?

And then there are the crazy soccer fans who may go after or even kill certain players like Zambrotta for his mistake, lives are on the line

It's not like Fifa can do anything if he argues that the player isn't completely focused and this is detrimental to the team so he needed to bench him becuase of his off field antics

A manager can limit underperforming players by restricting contract negotiations and transfers until after the tourney, which is best for the team, country, federation, and his job

All he has to say is that if you continue off the field stuff and start to lose your focus, I will bench you, simple as that.
It doesn't have to be his own interests, it could be whats best for a nation or a federation

Not everyyone can handle off field and on field things at the same time. A legend or being hated for the rest of your life?

HE has the power to declare if it comes on to the field, by benching them, and warning them before

The TD Title specifically states "players". I'm not going to jump the gun, but I will point out that Bigalke got off topic fairly early by making the comparison of Ronaldo a winger, to Scolari a manager. I'm don't mean to nit pick. This is just an observation. Good arguments from both of you.

The TD Title specifically states "players". I'm not going to jump the gun, but I will point out that Bigalke got off topic fairly early by making the comparison of Ronaldo a winger, to Scolari a manager. I'm don't mean to nit pick. This is just an observation. Good arguments from both of you.
GoldenThread U-23 | 06/17/08, 07:39 PM

No, GoldenThread... why do you always pick apart MY side of these throwdowns? ;-)

This is not jumping the gun... the correlation I make here is that the power to restrict player movement should NOT be in the hands of a national-team coach, someone who is increasingly foreign and may not have the best long-term interests for the team in mind... when the manager has the potential to jump ship at any opportunity, under what circumstance should the manager have the ultimate call on a player's real livelihood? He can certainly bench them, but that still is not restricting their ability to make said moves during an international tournament, merely their potential to compete in that tournament. This is hypocrisy to permit a person to simultaneously enforce one set of rules for his players while living by a separate set himself. If Scolari can make a declaration of his next move during a tournament, then so too should Ronaldo have that option. That is the subject here (a NATIONAL-TEAM MANAGER's ability to restrict club movement by PLAYERS)... so to mention one in correlation to the other is not off-topic at all...

Great great arguments on both sides

Bigalke correctly points out, in his final argument, that the actual topic is "managers" not allowing their players to sign etc. - I agree with him, that this is something that should fall under the jurisdiction of FIFA or the national Federations, not the managers. Could go either way on this, but voting to the right due to that point.

This is not jumping the gun... the correlation I make here is that the power to restrict player movement should NOT be in the hands of a national-team coach, someone who is increasingly foreign and may not have the best long-term interests for the team in mind... when the manager has the potential to jump ship at any opportunity, under what circumstance should the manager have the ultimate call on a player's real livelihood? He can certainly bench them, but that still is not restricting their ability to make said moves during an international tournament, merely their potential to compete in that tournament. This is hypocrisy to permit a person to simultaneously enforce one set of rules for his players while living by a separate set himself. If Scolari can make a declaration of his next move during a tournament, then so too should Ronaldo have that option. That is the subject here (a NATIONAL-TEAM MANAGER's ability to restrict club movement by PLAYERS)... so to mention one in correlation to the other is not off-topic at all...
Bigalke | 06/17/08, 07:46 PM

That kind of kills the TD, I mean a national team manager will never have the power to stop a transfer or a contract signature, if the player wants to transfer he can. Really, Fifa is the only body that can stop this kind of thing

my point is that he can punish him for disobeying him by benching or dropping him because he continued with the off field negotations which could bring down his play and his teams play.

That kind of kills the TD, I mean a national team manager will never have the power to stop a transfer or a contract signature, if the player wants to transfer he can. Really, Fifa is the only body that can stop this kind of thing

my point is that he can punish him for disobeying him by benching or dropping him because he continued with the off field negotations which could bring down his play and his teams play.
jeevs BS | 06/17/08, 08:01 PM

No, jeevs, this is the throwdown topic as you saw fit to copy it from my choice (which actually originally was meant to deal with whether MANAGERS could transfer)... and since that is how it is written this is how I have been willing to debate it... no funny business here, a manager can make such a move -- at the threat of being usurped by national federation bosses. SHOULD a manager have this power to allow or disallow such activity, though, as the topic states? You argue that he should be allowed to restrict such movement... and I have argued that he should not have the ultimate say on the matter either way. Thanks for a great debate, and this was neither a truism nor foul play...

Ok, I don't mean to pick apart your side Bigalke. I haven't voted yet either. I totally understand your counter argument. You've made some very valid points here. My TD comments aren't intended as personal attacks on any participant and this is true of you as well as anyone else. I do apologize if you feel that I'm in some way targeting you.

Ok jeevs I see your point as well. But my vote will remain to the right, based on how argued.

this is tough

GoldenThread, I take nothing as a personal affront... that was more an observation, as you made yourself... ;-)

No ill intent taken...

arguments on both sides were very insightful. but i will vote right based on technicality and how Bigalke decided to argue the topic.
Sure the managers can punish the players for dealing with off-field business but in the end, they shouldnt have the power/authority to prohibit such business. National Federations, UEFA, FIFA, should crack down on clubs rather than players... but i guess thats another topic.

Great TD between 2 great TD'ers.

Thanks Bigalke. You can see that I didn't grasp the direction of the TD. No ill intent on my part either. This is SoccerNation. The group of brotherhood. I really can't vote for or against either argument. You both nailed it. This is what the Championship was meant to be. BTW, Scolari is the man for Chelsea. I have some pretty high expectations. I cannot wait to see what he can do.

Nuff said.....Best of luck you guys.

<------------- no doubt

<<-----------vote

take care of business on the court first, off the court after.

Would it not be an infringement of human rights to tell someone when and where they can sort out who they work for? They have the right to sell their services to the highest bidder. Once you start telling them the whens, the wheres and the hows, it gets all legal and messy. Certainly in Europe I can see the courts getting involved and Fifa and Uefa being left red faced at any attempt to restrict a player's movement during a designated transfer window.

No, jeevs, this is the throwdown topic as you saw fit to copy it from my choice (which actually originally was meant to deal with whether MANAGERS could transfer)... and since that is how it is written this is how I have been willing to debate it... no funny business here, a manager can make such a move -- at the threat of being usurped by national federation bosses. SHOULD a manager have this power to allow or disallow such activity, though, as the topic states? You argue that he should be allowed to restrict such movement... and I have argued that he should not have the ultimate say on the matter either way. Thanks for a great debate, and this was neither a truism nor foul play...

Bigalke | 06/17/08, 08:08 PM

Bigalke, I never meant ill intent. It is a great TD for sure. Sorry if you took that way. I think the topic is broad in the way you infer what it means, that's what I meant, which is probably a good thing to make the debate better