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  • June 17, 2008 08:34 PM ET

All Time Houston Astros Roster

Dookie: Here We Go Steelers (117-19-8) vs Captain Squints (43-43-7)
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based on what they did with the Astros only! Follow my format. I'll list stats and argue based on your changes...try to make as many as possible...thanks!

Use the Position they played the most games at

C Brad Asmus
1B Jeff Bagwell
2B Craig Biggio
3B Enos Cabell
SS Craig Reynolds
OF Jose Cruz
OF Cesar Cedeno
OF Lance Berkman

SP Roy Oswalt
SP Joe Niekro
SP Nolan Ryan
CL Billy Wagner


C - Alan Ashby*
1B - Bagwell
2B - Biggio
3B - Ken Caminiti*
SS - Roger Metzger*
OF - Jimmy Wynn *
OF - Cedeno
OF - Berkman

SP - Nolan Ryan
SP - Roy Oswalt
SP - J.R. Richard*
CL - Billy Wagner


Asmus 1217Games, .247avg, 406R, 736H, 39HR, 372RBI, 51SB
Ashby 965Games, .252avg, 282R, 947H, 69HR, 388RBI, 3SB

Average and RBIs are a wash, I have the edge in Runs and SB, you take hits and homers.
But defensively, Asmus has a HUGE edge over Ashby. Asmus has a career .994 fielding percentage and has thrown out 472 of 1327 men stealing (36%).
Ashby has a .986 fielding % and has thrown out 445 of 1557 runners (29%).
You need a guy who can keep runners from stealing bases, so Asmus has to be the pick.

Running out of room so I'll list stats for the rest and argue them in the third: look beyond power tho
Cabell 1067Games, .281avg, 522R, 1124H, 45HR, 405RBI, 191SB
Caminiti 1065Games, .264avg, 496R, 1037H, 103HR, 546RBI, 48SB

Reynolds 1170Games, .252avg, 373R, 860H, 32HR, 300RBI, 43SB
Metzger 1021Games, .229avg, 407R, 844H, 5HR, 206RBI, 64SB

Cruz 1870Games, .292avg, 871R, 1937H, 138HR, 942RBI, 288SB
Wynn 1426Games, .255avg, 829R, 1291H, 223HR, 719RBI, 180SB

Niekro 2270.0IP, 3.22ERA, 144W, 1.264WHIP, 3.24BB/9IP, 1178Ks, 82CG, 21Shutouts,
Richard 1606.0IP, 3.15ERA, 107W, 1.243WHIP, 4.32BB/9IP, 1493Ks, 76CG, 19Shutouts,


Nice job on gathering a lot of statistics.

Catcher - RBI and AVG are a wash. I will give you AVG. However, RBI is certainly not a wash. Not when you take into account that Ashby had more RBI in about 250 less games and with the difference in games the only clear offensive advantage is SB. There is more to a catcher on defense than stats. A catcher needs to be able to control the game and the pitchers. At doing this Ashby was one of the best ever.

3B - KC has HR and RBI in a landslide. However, the biggest difference between these two was Caminiti's defense. He had a great glove and one of the strongest arms ever at the position.

SS - let's face it neither of these two could hit much. As a shortstop you need a defensive player first and Metzger could get into the holes and field the position better than any other Astro ever has.

OF - Even playing in the 60s one of the lowest offensive points in MLB his offensive stats are still right there with Cruz, especially considering the 450 games less he played than Cruz. True his avg is lower, however, OBP favors Wynn (.362 > .359) which is a much more important stat anyways.


Ashby was better than Asmus at controlling the game? What's your proof? I'm sure his pitchers loved runners stealing at will on him too.

For Cabell vs. Caminiti, I take the contact numbers, you take the power numbers, but Cabell has about 150 more stolen bases than Caminiti does. Fielding is a wash. Caminiti has a .946 Fielding Percentage to Cabell's .944. Caminiti had 121 errors with the Astros to Cabell's 104 errors at third base with the Astros. So it looks like the only separator is speed, and Cabell takes that.

As for SS - My guy had a .23 higher average, more hits, 6x the homeruns, and their fielding percentages were only off by less than .1.

OF: Cruz had a .37 higher average, 600+ more hits, 120+ more RBIs and 108 more stolen bases. Are you willing to substitute power for speed at every position on your team? Cruz could run down any fly ball in the outfield. Another deciding factor? Cruz was named an All Star 4 times as an Astro. Wynn was only named once.

SP: Niekro had 37 more wins, allowed less walks per game, had more complete games, and had more shutouts. In fact, Niekro is the all time career wins leader on the Astros. And you left him off your team...


Wow, you are boring. You put way too much stock in stats. There are more to a player than statistics.

3B - They both fielded the ball the same however Ken had the stronger arm. So which is better defensively? OBP is a much more important stat than avg. especially for a contact hitter. In OBP Ken leads Enos (.330 - .313). So fielding Ken is better, he hits for more power and gets on base more. Enos steals more bases, that is his only advantage.

SS - I am still going with Metzger over Reynolds with the glove. Why? He could get to balls that Reynolds couldn't even dream of. If you can't get to it you can't make an error on it keeping fielding percentage high. So why do I claim that Metger did better with no proof? I watched them both play. Hitting you put too much into avg. OBP is even.

OF - Once again you put too much stock in avg. Wynn got on base more. The rest of the stats you point out as being in favor of Cruz; hits, RBI, SB do you forget that Cruz played 450 more games.

SP - First of all JR never got caught with a nail file. J.R. better record (107-71 - 221-204), J.R. had More Ks per nine innings, better K to Walk ratio, better ERA, better pitcher

Comments (8) Add A Comment

June 17, 2008  09:13 PM ET
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I'll wait for arguments but I love the Jimmy Wynn and J.R. Richard picks by Squint. An argument can be made for Mike Scott as well.

June 17, 2008  09:15 PM ET
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I wanted Mike Scott but couldn't figure out which of the other ones to take off

June 18, 2008  11:30 AM ET
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clemens>?

June 18, 2008  11:36 AM ET
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Clemens only had 38 wins with the astros

June 18, 2008  11:38 AM ET
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Surprised that neither mentioned Mike Scott. I have to go with Squint, based on Caminiti and Wynn.....

June 18, 2008  11:39 AM ET
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I think I would have Scott and Larry Dierker ahead of Niekro...

June 19, 2008  12:30 AM ET
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Duquesne, you did yourself in with statistics. You put too much stock in your catcher's defense, and all of your players were straight up worse.

 
June 19, 2008  07:33 AM ET
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hemo, i'm guessing you don't play baseball....the catcher's defense is the most important part of his game

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