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  • June 18, 2008 06:59 PM ET

Better part of Cal Ripken's game: Defense or offense?

Cassidy's Ultimate Sexy (135-76-9) vs thebasketballguru (35-67-9)
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I say offense.

He is a 19-time AL All-Star. Was that more due 2 his glove or his bat?

He was a tall SS/thirdbasemen giving him an advantage of range on defense due 2 longer arms than a player of lesser stature @ the same positions.

Ripken got the moniker "Iron Man" as much for his offense as his defense. However, how much more did he move on defense through all those innings where he never saw a ground ball versus coming up to bat EVERY game @ least 3 times and running the bases during his MLB record 2,632 consecutive games streak?

In his 19 year career, he only won a Gold Glove TWICE!(91' and 92')

Conversely, he won the Silver Slugger Award 8 times(83-86, 89, 91, 93-84

Cal Ripken's career HRs? 431

Career hits? 3,189

Cal was a legend with the bat, but only getting 2 Gold Gloves out of a 19 year career?(Greg Maddux as a pitcher has 17 Gold Gloves for comparisons sake)

Ripken came out of the gate with a HR in his very first AB in MLB in 1982. The reason he won rookie of the year that year was MORE due to his 28 homeruns than anything he did on defense.

Next year in 83? .318 avg, 27 HR, 102 RBI. No mention of D that year is necessary.


It is defense for one really good reason.

It is the reason he played in every single game 2,632 times.

Without that a manager may have benched him in favor of a better fielder once or twice.

While at the end of his famous streak his bat was fading, his glove kept him in the realm of best infielders in the game.

The Greg Maddux arguement is invalid because writers usually go with name recogniton for the pitcher award because they don't really have a highlight reel.


So you think the reason Cal Ripken played in 2,632 games was because he wanted to be know as an "Iron Man" on defense? I disagree for the reasons stated in my first argument.

Cal was not a bad fielder needing to ever be replaced. He just wasnt the BEST fielder. No reason to bench him.

At the end of his streak his bat was fading? Dude, the year he announced his retirement in 2001 he was selected to the All-Star game.

In this age of technology to say there is no highlight reel for every game under the sun for every pitch shows some naivet'e on your part.


Refering to your last arguement, Maddux played in an era for the most part did not have every game on TV and easily accesible for the masses.

The year he announced his retirement there was at least two people better than him at 3rd base/shortstop. He was in so many all-star games due to his legacy.

I did not say he played all those games to be known as an iron man on d. I said it is the reason he did play that many games in a row.

You also have to take in to consideration that Omar Visquel was in the league for most of the 90's, and in the 80's there was Alan Trammell and Tony Fernandez. Then after Trammell retired and Fernandez stopped winning, Cal won in 91 and 92, before being unseated by Omar Visquel. Then once he moved to third, Wade Boggs and Robin Ventura were there to get the award.

You see, it isn't that he wasn't a great defender, it was the players in the league at the time that overshadowed his greatness with his glove.


Fack Maddux. He has really nothing to do with Cal's O or D other than to compare Cal has two gold gloves compared to Maddux 17.


Nice arguement. I see you think you are going to get the win based on your two prior arguements, but I will continue my arguement.

Ripken's stats are so impressive due to the longevity of his career. If he didn't play that many games in a row, we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.

Also Gold Gloves do not define a great fielder. Ripken was one of the best defensive shortstops of all time, but was not the flashiest player. If he played today he wouldn't appear on Web Gems to keep it that way. But what he did do was use his smarts to make plays on D. He was a lot smarter on the diamond than in the batters box.

Comments (28) Add A Comment

June 18, 2008  07:23 PM ET
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Please decline this. It was meant for Gu3 but when I submitted my argument it went inexplicably to the site instead of Gu3 who I had specifically challenged. Please. Give you a cookie if you do.

June 18, 2008  07:25 PM ET
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crap i finally read the comment after I argued. Sorry

June 18, 2008  07:29 PM ET
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Its okay I copy/pasted my argument into a Micosoft Works Word Processor document.

June 18, 2008  07:41 PM ET
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im from maryland and cal always has and always will be my fav player... he was one of the most well rounded players both good at hitting and fielding, however in his day SS didn't swing the bat like they do today... he was the power hitting SS. his bat was his real weapon. and rights arguements blow so i have to go left

June 18, 2008  07:58 PM ET
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Cal was much better defensively. He didn't have the greatest range but was always in perfect position and a very good arm. Offensively, he was overrated. At his best, he was incredible but in most years, Ripken was just an average hitter with above average power. I still think he would have had much better offensive numbers if he actually took a day off every couple weeks but that never happened.

June 18, 2008  08:04 PM ET
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I goota tell you, if you look at Cal Ripken's numbers offensively and factor in longevity, he is really just a "decent" offensive player. On the other hand, he was a very smart defensive player that did his homework, was always in the right position and rarily made stupid plays. He averaged 23 HRs 91 RBI and .276 a season. Certainly nothing to sneeze at but above average at best. I love the guy but the streak and his likability cloud the facts sometimes!

June 18, 2008  08:18 PM ET
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Due to the comments, I should be winning, unless people are voting to the wrong side

June 18, 2008  08:22 PM ET
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I am guilty Guru! Sorry Cass. I love Cal but his offensive numbers put into the perspective of yearly average just aren't prolific but he can play defense any day for me!

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June 18, 2008  08:41 PM ET
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most known for his offense and underrated when it comes to his glove

June 18, 2008  09:21 PM ET
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"It is the reason he played in every single game 2,632 times."

His reason for playing was not all for the defense. It was not for him to go out there and watch his pitcher pitch the ball and hope his own team's offensive innings go by quicker. I would say that it was more balanced out. He wanted to play the game defensively, but he still wanted to win the games. So I wouldn't say that this statement is completely correct.

June 18, 2008  09:29 PM ET
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most known for his offense and underrated when it comes to his glove
Chosen1 | 06/18/08, 08:41 PM

I actually think that would be the other way around. He was a much better player on defense, but he was still a great offensive player.

June 18, 2008  09:31 PM ET
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Cal went out there every day because thats how he was taught to be by his dad because his dad was the same way. his dad was a tough old guy

June 18, 2008  09:34 PM ET
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Bigdleech as great a defensive player as he was he never got the recognition of say an Ozzie Smith even though he was at least just as good as Ozzie. his offensive numbers get more attention because they were far above the shortstops of his time and he pretty much made way for the big shortstops of today

June 18, 2008  09:59 PM ET
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great arguments from the left, my vote goes there

June 18, 2008  10:15 PM ET
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I am voting on arguments
<----------------------------------

June 19, 2008  06:21 AM ET
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i have to lean left because when he was coming up what other shortstops were mashing more than 20 homers year in and year out. he was the reason guys like A-Rod and Tejada were able to play SS and not put into the outfield or on the corners.

June 19, 2008  07:46 AM ET
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TradeAngelos and Coach are exactly right. Ripken's defense may not have been stellar, but offensively, he is overrated. Overall, he was a decent hitter but not great by any means. True, he had some great seasons, particularly for a shortstop. But as a body of work, his offensive numbers are based more on lengevity and than true prowess.

He was a good hitter, and gave good production from a middle infield position, but that's about it.

June 19, 2008  01:54 PM ET
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TradeAngelos and Coach are exactly right. Ripken's defense may not have been stellar, but offensively, he is overrated. Overall, he was a decent hitter but not great by any means. True, he had some great seasons, particularly for a shortstop. But as a body of work, his offensive numbers are based more on lengevity and than true prowess.

He was a good hitter, and gave good production from a middle infield position, but that's about it.
Porkins *BS/CB/JL | 06/19/08, 07:46 AM

Great. And that is why you voted for his two gold gloves?

 
June 19, 2008  02:40 PM ET
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I think its definitely his bat, the Iron Man had 3,000 hits I mean come on, plus his 400 homers, no doubt his offense

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