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  • June 20, 2008 10:41 AM ET

Should the Penguins trade Malkin to the Kings for the #2 pick and Cammalleri?

T-fo is Medium Pimpin' (135-64-14) vs Random Caribou (11-20-2)
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As much as I hate to say it, I'm going with yes. In the world of the salary cap, the Pens do not realistically have the luxury of signing two MVP caliber centers to long term deals.

At the DISCOUNTED price of $8.5 million a year Malkin would bring, Pittsburgh would not be able to retain the other key components of their young nucleus.

By trading Malkin, they can draft a stud blueliner to replace the departing Malone, and still roll out a lethal #1 line of Crosby/Hossa, a #2 line centered by Staal, and a #3 line centered by Cammalleri.

Even with all that, by parting with Malkin, they could also afford to sign Orpik and Fleury long term.

In the world of the salary cap, that's not too shabby.

It would be tough to part with a world class talent like Malkin, but in terms of putting a top notch TEAM on the ice, the deal makes sense.


I just heard this on the news last night, and i was going to stasrt a throwdown myself... While i acknowledge your point in saving money and signing on otherplayers, Malking is just too much of a good player to lose. Do you seriously want to lose the second highest scorer in the NHL last year? The way i see it, the pens have 55 million salary cap, and it will go like this:
Crosby: 8.7 mil
Malkin: 7 mil
whitney: 4 mil
gonchar: 5 mil
Hossa: 7 mil
That equals about 32 million, which gives 23 million left to give to malone, fleury, roberts, laraque, ruutu, orpik, and dupuis. If fleury and malone can ink at their market values, 5 mil and 4 mil, respectively, plus the other already signed players, then that would leave 10 million to give to the other players. By dropping any one or two of those five, we could get back our core of players without a seat. Now, if we drop malone, which is a big possibility, we could get all five of those back plus some minor leagures.

Lets look at this trade froma different standpoint: What would we gain? next to othing, in fact, because all we would get is an unproven draft pick that would not be a definite to play well or make the team.

More on cam next


Sorry Caribou, you're living in dreamland. Your math is a bit off.

First, Malkin's agent has said he would be willing to sign for a discount "similar to Crosby". That is not 7 million a season, that's 8.5 million a season. That's not being greedy, that's a discounted price to what he would get on the open market.

Second, Fleury's market value has been stated at $5 million a year, not 4. That's 2 million you haven't accounted for.

Third, you have not accounted for Staal. I'm assuming you are conceding he is a write off. I'm not sure that makes sense. If you go by the relative prices Staal and Cammalleri would bring on the market, you could sign them both for just a bit more than Malkin alone would cost.

So I propose to you this. I think the combined value of Staal (just 19, but at 6'4" 220 a future stud) and Cammy (a 70-80 point guy, which is awsome for a 3rd liner) is more than the value of 1 Malkin. Malkin is a star to be sure, but you can't invest all your money in Crosby and Malkin. No matter how you crunch the numbers your team suffers as a whole.

All this, and I haven't even gotten to the value of getting the 2nd pick in the draft yet!!! More to come


ok, first off: i said that fleury was valued at 5 mil. do you know what respectively means? ok, now i must concede something: i totally forgot about staal. my bad. Lets do this math over again, with the whole team involved:
Crosby: 8.7
Malkin: 8.5 (if you insist)
Whitney: 4
Gonchar: 5
Hossa: 7
Fleury: 5
Malone: 4
Orpik: 2
Ruutu: 1.2
Dupuis: 1
Conklim: 1
Gill: 2.2
Hall: 1
Letang: 1
Laraque: 1.5
Roberts 2.5
Scuderi 1
Sykora: 2.5
Talbot: 1
Kennedy: 1
61 million
We are six million over with all of those players. Do you really want the player to have to leave be the highest scorer on the team, one of the most talented players on the ice, a contestent in the Hart Trophy and the Pearson Award and the scoring title? Who carried the team while crosby was down, all for some draft pick and a man who is not nearly as good as him? Sure, Cammy's okay (a thrid liner who is 26 years old, 47 points, -16) but nearly as good as Malkin, and the draft pick is not an assured success.
more...


I mentioned below that I mis-read your Fleury number. There's still a problem with your 2nd list. Staal still is not on it. You have to factor in his being worth 4 to 5 mil as well. By your own math you were already 6 mil OVER the cap. And that was by assigning a majority of the players with minimum numbers. Not likely at all.

If you think Orpik will sign for 2 mil a year, you are also severely undervaluing him. That's a glaring problem that has to be addressed. Better add at least 1.5 to him.

I'll work with your other numbers for arguments sake. If you add Stall to the equation at, say, 4.5 mil a year (and that could be low, by the way), that puts the Pens at 12 mil OVER the cap. Guess what? They can't do that. And that's with your own numbers.

I'm a Pens fan, and love Malkin's talent, but a GM has to make the tough choices. This might be toughest of all, but it still makes sense.


I feel stupid. How could i forget one of the best players on the team...twice. I shall now hide my head in shame...

Now that that is over i shall disregard this little numbers name we have been playing (i have never been very good at math) and just discuss the logistics. We cannot afford to lose this player. period. This is one of the best players in the entire league, a monster at scoring at every angle. One cannot just give that up like its nothing. Without him last year, we would not have even made it to the playoffs, let alone the Finals. The same thing will happen this year if we let this superstar go. we will be an inferior team to the one last year by a lot. If we let one or two minor superstars go, then we MAY be slightly inferior, bt not nearly to the extent that we would be without the second best scorer in the league. Cammy is not worth losing him, the draft pick is not worth losinbg him, NOTHING is worth losing this keystone of team. Do you know what happens when a keystone is taken out? The entire bulding colapses, and that is what will happen without Malkin. We will not be nearly as big of a scoring threat, we will not be as big of a threat ANYWHERE. Dont let him go!

Comments (14) Add A Comment

June 20, 2008  10:46 AM ET
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will post argument later in the day...have things to do.

June 20, 2008  10:48 AM ET
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ok Caribou...good to know I'm going up against a fellow Pens fan...takes hate out of the argument. Good luck!

June 20, 2008  11:08 AM ET
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as a pens fan....i really want to weigh in on this....i have my own ideas, but i'll wait until the arguments to say what i have to say....

let's just say that there must be something behind the scenes that we don't know about for us to offer Malkin

June 20, 2008  01:21 PM ET
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i think that this might actually be a good thing, but i need the practice, and i like malkin!

June 20, 2008  01:41 PM ET
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I dont think there is anyway they can keep Hossa and Malkin. After seeing what Briere got on the open market, a year later I think Hossa could get $7.5-8M. IF Malkin can be signed as a Restricted FA, long-term for $8.5-9M per, I would say stick with the young star! Orpik is probably looking at $4.5 per (Hopefully from my Sabres)..he is probably a goner. What is Camalleri's estimated future salary? He's gotta be $4-5M per. (long-term) And if the number 2 overall pans out, which I'm assuming Pitt would want, they would be in the same boat in a couple years. Crosby will still be the best player in the world(and getting paid like it), and another young stud will be looking for a pay day. Valuewise Cam and the pick for Malkin is probably close, but I dont think it will help their Salary Cap situation long-term, which is probably the only good reason to move Malkin in the first place. (Especially if the #2 selection pans out) Fleury will probably command at least $5M a season for a long-term deal. I think he proved himself in the playoffs.

If I was to move Malkin it would have to be for a proven F and D, that wouldn't destroy the Cap and players that aren't too old. I would call Florida and try to get Horton and Bouwmeester. (You might be able to sign them long-term for a combined $9M or so, what Malkin will probably get)

June 20, 2008  01:45 PM ET
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The way i see it, the pens have 55 million salary cap, and it will go like this:
Crosby: 8.7 mil
Malkin: 7 mil
whitney: 4 mil
gonchar: 5 mil
Hossa: 7 mil
That equals about 32 million, which gives 23 million left to give to malone, fleury, roberts, laraque, ruutu, orpik, and dupuis.

You need more than 3 defensemen!

June 20, 2008  01:46 PM ET
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You are short a couple forwards too...not to mention a back-up Goalie

June 20, 2008  02:00 PM ET
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yeah, yeah i was getting to that- ran out of space. I was just saying the stars. True, i completely forgot about staal. good point.
Hopefully all of those people will take a hometown discount

June 20, 2008  02:02 PM ET
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i was just saying all of the free agents

June 20, 2008  04:04 PM ET
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Sorry Caribou. You had Fleury's number right.

June 20, 2008  04:50 PM ET
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yeah, its all good.

June 21, 2008  11:12 AM ET
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Okay... in the end, do I think Malkin will be traded? No...

Whose debating performance here convinced me otherwise, though? T-fo...

This started to make a lot more sense once it started getting debated...

June 21, 2008  05:10 PM ET
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I was going to vote right till he started to argue.hhahahahah.

 
June 21, 2008  11:46 PM ET
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Thanks guys. And in the end, it was pure theory. When I first read the rumor I though it was a horrible idea, but when I started thinking about it, I could see the sense of it. Now that Hossa says he's going to test the free agent market though, it seems the question is moot. If they do not sign Hossa, they can afford Malkin.

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