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  • June 22, 2008 09:35 AM ET

TD Masters Tournament IV - Round III - Of the single-season records set in the past thirty years, which is the least likely to be broken?

Bigalke (103-35-15) vs Nickb23- It's a Girl! (123-38-14)
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When this record was set in 2001, it surpassed the mark which had been set eighty-one years prior. Many of baseball's greatest hitters failed to eclipse the mark in the period from 1920 until it toppled at the start of the new millennium. It takes both power AND plate smarts to pass this mark, yet so many who have possessed both throughout history could not overtake the Sultan of Swat...

When the record finally fell, it was one of those marks which would supposedly never fall. The new high-water mark is even higher and even less fallible. Set by Barry Bonds, the single-season slugging percentage record is the least likely record to be broken...

A calculation of total bases divided by at-bats, Bonds' .863 SLG sets a ludicrously-high precedent for everyone else to chase. Why is THIS record so hard to break? Theoretically, the highest possible SLG is 4.000, but over an entire season no one can sustain such a pace. Not every hit is a homer... nor can every at-bat result in a hit. So what Bonds did to surpass Ruth is even more impressive. A person would need a .900 BA -- or a .225 achieved only with homers -- to best Bonds' SLG, which is why this record is least likely to be broken.


Ah, what tainted Barry Bonds record is the most unbreakable?

Good choice, but in 2004 he set a mark that had been standing for 2 seasons. It was held by Barry Bonds and then smashed by Barry Bonds.
This record, before being broken by Bonds was held by a man who is considered by many to be the greatest hitter of all-time.

Ted Williams is the man I speak of. In 1941 he had a .553 On Base Percentage. The thing is in 1941 he also had a .406 batting average, which has not been surpassed since. I bring this up because before Bonds it took a man hitting .400 to even come close to what Bonds did.

So what is the record for Bonds, if Williams was .553? Can't be more than .20 points, right. I mean Bonds only broke the slugging mark by .16. Wrong, Bonds got on base to the tune of .609 or almost 61% of the time. He broke Ted Williams record by .56 points!!!!

The closest player to Barry Bonds since 1960 is Jason Giambi in 2001, his OBP was .477. He only needed to reach base in 89 of the plate appearances that he didn't to pass Bonds. Only .132 points short of Barry.

His OBP for walks alone was .383, that would have been good for 15th in the majors that year.


A good choice, certainly... however, in those years when his on-base percentage was breaking his own record, he couldn't get near his slugging percentage record. Someone can easily come along who gets on base regularly and threaten the on-base percentage record. This is a stat is indicative of patience at the plate... whereas slugging is dependent on BOTH patience AND power...

As you indicate yourself, a lot of the on-base percentage record was dependent on walks. Slugging percentage is dependent solely on making contact with the ball... making it much harder to attain, as it is wholly dependent on the production of the hitter and cannot be bolstered artificially through pitcher inaccuracy or intentional walks...

Essentially, Bonds' .609 OBP in 2004 was one part Bonds & two parts fear of pitching to Bonds... his slugging percentage record is one-hundred percent his doing. Someone will eventually come along to make pitchers walk them with frequency; but as he threatens the OBP record, it is highly likely that he will come nowhere near that slugging record. It is far more difficult to achieve a record all on one's own than it is to allow peripheral stats to increase that number...


In the last 50 years NO ONE has come close, I mean close to a .550 OBP. I mean we live in a money ball era, where walks are preached. Yet the best a money ball player could offer was .477 OBP.

"Someone will eventually come along to make pitchers walk them with frequency;"

Here is my problem with this statement..... Barry Bonds BROKE the slugging mark you speak of in 2001. That year he had a .515 On Base Percentage. The next 3 years he had a higher OBP. Why? because he broke the slugging percentage record. It took him breaking the slugging percentage record to force teams to walk him at that frequency.

Which by the way, broke his own record by 34. The closest anyone has came to that record in the past 80 years is 70 away. You throw in the intentional walks, well the closest anyone came to Barry's 120 was 45. He broke that by 75!! No one will strike the fear of god into a pitcher until they have a season that is as productive as Barry's 2001. To many situational pitchers for that to happen.

Closest to each record in past 50 years.
Giambi- .477 or 89 more times on base.
McGwire- .752 or only 57 more total bases, no less than 32 less chances than Giambi.


Bonds is a statistical anomaly, Nick... let's not forget that. The fact that he was able to break his own record by a mere .027 two years later, largely on 38 more walks, is indicative that this record could be broken by a feared hitter. This hitter, while belting homers, could also easily never come close to the slugging percentage record. The fact that Bonds was never able to break this record of his own -- which makes doping moot, since it is him besting himself on an equal playing field -- is indicative of the fact that it requires more than getting walked a little more to defeat the numbers.

You can talk about how many more BASES it requires to break a record, but it is less likely that someone will replicate the concurrence of power and plate presence that Barry Bonds put together in 2001. As the record shows, he was able to beat himself at his own game, breaking his own on-base percentage record as pitchers feared him more... but he could never come close to replicating his slugging numbers, only coming within .051 of the record in that on-base-breaking 2004 season...

Ultimately, the slugging percentage record is less likely to be broken...


In well over 100 years of baseball not one hitter has come within .056 points of Barry Bonds on base record. The most feared hitter of all-time never got on at better than a .545 clip, Babe Ruth. The man reached base over 60 % of the time.

Babeball is an ever changing game and one of the changes that effects the probablity of a hitter striking that much fear into a team is the importance of the bullpen. Teams carry lefty and righty specialty guys just for that "feared hitter". They have closer who are dominant enough to get the "feared hitter" out.

I realize Barry never rebroke the slugging % record. It is kind of hard to do when NO ONE will give you a decent pitch to hit. He earned that respect which led to the anomaly that is the on base record. 120 intentional walks, he almost tripled the next closest in the history of the game. Yet you are telling me that someone will come along and strike that much fear without having an unimaginable season offensively first.

The slugging percentage record is tough to break.

The on base percentage will never ever be broken.

June 22, 2008  10:22 AM ET

Come on, you gotta go with 73 dingers by Bonds, or at least dimaggio's record

June 22, 2008  10:31 AM ET

Last 30 years though, tbg...

June 22, 2008  10:32 AM ET

Very, very good pick, Bigalke. However, I heard that some fat dude named Slowey McChoke holds the record, not Bonds. jk

June 22, 2008  11:52 AM ET

How about the Stolen bases record which are never ever came close to anymore Guys got more than 12o steals while now the leaders at best get 75

June 22, 2008  11:57 AM ET

How about the Stolen bases record which are never ever came close to anymore Guys got more than 12o steals while now the leaders at best get 75
KG Fan Anything is possible | 06/22/08, 11:52 AM

A good TD could be non Bonds records, say hits and stolen bases.

June 22, 2008  12:02 PM ET

how about wins for a pitcher

June 22, 2008  12:13 PM ET

how about wins for a pitcher
gonets: 8 days till my b-day! | 06/22/08, 12:02 PM

Had to be broke in the last 30 years gonets.

June 22, 2008  12:14 PM ET

Very, very good pick, Bigalke. However, I heard that some fat dude named Slowey McChoke holds the record, not Bonds. jk
G.O.A.T. | 06/22/08, 10:32 AM

127 HR's and it is rising rapidly.

June 22, 2008  12:34 PM ET

Both are very good choices. In my opinion, OBP is slightly harder to maintain than SLG. I look at guys who are marginal hitters yet still have high SLG %. Guys like Marcus Thames, for example, who is slugging .627.

Hell, Russell Branyan is slugging .812 right now.

Still, either record is just incredibly good, and there are arguments to be made for both sides..I'll wait.

June 24, 2008  05:35 PM ET

voting left...SLG is harder to maintain than OBP. You can get on base alot, and have a low slugging percentage. If you hit a ton of singles, but few doubles, triples, or HRs, your OBP is still high, while your slugging is low.

Great arguments from both

June 25, 2008  09:26 AM ET

Great arguments from both but my own knowledge of the game as a player and coach leads me to believe that Slg% is far more difficult to effect than OBP.

June 25, 2008  09:37 AM ET

Nope. At high levels, OBP is harder to maintain than slugging. See my previous comment.

Getting on base regularly is the primary goal of any hitter, and what Bonds did in that regard was amazing. The key is the difference between Bonds and everyone else- not even Ruth could approach what he did in terms of OBP.

I have to go right in this one, but excellent arguments as always.

June 25, 2008  09:53 AM ET

Simplistic example:

Guy A has 3 strikeouts and one double. That's a SLG% of .500
Guy B has has 2 strikeouts and 2 singles. That's also a SLG% of .500. But Guy B also has a .500 OBP (as opposed to .250)

I think we all agree that getting 2 hits is harder than getting one hit. Yes, hitting doubles is harder than hitting singles, but the differenc ebtween singles and extra base hits isn't as big as the difference between singles and no hit at all.

June 25, 2008  11:38 AM ET

I really don't know all that much about the topic so I'm voting for the more convincing argument, which, in my opinion, was Nick's. Great throwdown though.

 
June 25, 2008  02:21 PM ET

The fact that Bonds was never able to break this record of his own -- which makes doping moot, since it is him besting himself on an equal playing field -- is indicative of the fact that it requires more than getting walked a little more to defeat the numbers. -- Chief


Clinched it. Vote left.

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