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If Lance Armstrong makes a top 20 all time athlete list so does Barry Bonds


This is in response to the TD on this where Bonds was left off. I think this is wrong. Especially considering you have Lance Armstrong on it.

Both are equally great. Lance has 7 in a row on the tour and Barry is the all time home run king. Its arguable but Barry holds the greatest record in sports.

Both are guilty of the same thing. Steroid accusations. I see no difference in lying to everyone and lying to congress. As soon as they ask Lance he will lie about it as well.

Anyone, and I mean anyone who believes that either havent used more needles than Whitney Houston is simply crazy or naive.

So I ask, How can Lance make the cut and Barry be excluded?


"So I ask, How can Lance make the cut and Barry be excluded? "

Take the list I already made from the other TD....And I can still make a list of 20 athletes all time that are greater than Barry Bonds....

Lance did somthing that no one has even come close to doing. On the other hand, there are 3 people with over 700 HR's and soon to be more with A-rod.

I doubt Lance is the kinda guy who would use PED's in the first place. Its not like he is a free agent in a sport of million dollar babies. Where the more sacks you get, the larger your contract...He's not in baseball where the more HR's you get the better your contract. He is in a sport of where the winner is the winner and goes home to his sponsors with little to no recognition from the media or the rest of the sporting world.

He's NOT competing against himself in a incentive laden contract where if he is at 90% of the cycling competitions he gets another 20 Million. He's contracts dont state that if he stays in the lead of the race's for 80% of the time he get's another 5 Million.

Athelte's in other sports are more apt to use steriods simply becuase it could mean the difference in Millions of dollars


Your argument is completely backwards. If Barry dosent do steroids he still has millions. If Lance dosent do PED's he probably has less money that I currently do. Lance is one of a small hanful of American cyclists to ever make a living in the sport. Lance became the greatest of all time by out doping the competition. He has failed not one but two tests which he "explains". The only reason the explanations are bought is b/c Americans generally dislike the French. So the last thing an American can accept is that Lance did wrong. However; If you look deep into your soul you will find that you know Lance is as guilty as Barry.

Secondly, Winning 7 bicycle races is a bigger athletic accomplishment than hitting more home runs than any baseball player in the history of the game? He is ahead of Ruth, Aaron, and this list of greats could go for days. I feel Barry is the more accomplished athlete.


" He is ahead of Ruth, Aaron, and this list of greats could go for days."

I got one name for you.....Josh Gibson. On his Hall of Fame plaque he is
credited with hitting over 800 home runs without PED's. Thats the kind of person that made my list. Not some guy who got jacked up half way through his career to make more money. I doubt he even did it to get the record....Just to get the big contract and make more money

What's funny about one of the steroid allegations is that he filed a counter suit against the person who was making the claims and they settled out of court. If the allegations were true, why would anyone settle out of court??? Barry isnt settling out of Court......Clemmens isnt settling out of court.....

Check this out Frank..........

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/cycling/5033672.stm


On a side note, there is a theory regarding Lances V02Max and the Radiation Therapy. Basically it is this, VO2 max is basically the amt of oxygen the blood can take before increasing Lactic Acid. Some studies indicate that Radiation Therapy can increase this. Meaning Lances cancer treatment gave him an advantage by his blook holding more oxygen, lowering the heart rate, and not producing lactic acid (muscle tiredness).

I personally think that is BS. I think he doped, doped, and doped some more strait to the top of his sport. I think everyone knows that he did. The difference is simply this: Lance is a white American beating the French at their own game, Barry is a hated American beating a legend (Aaron) and a White Hero (Ruth).

You can type it in your argument, but you cant tell yourself honestly that Barry wouldnt be on your list if it werent for Steroids. That being the case, Lance shouldnt be on the list either. Or they should both be on the list.


"The difference is simply this: Lance is a white American beating the French at their own game, Barry is a hated American beating a legend (Aaron) and a White Hero (Ruth)."

I was waiting for it and you kept it till the 3rd argument. I knew there was gonna be some reference to race. Lance has been cleared by an investigation on the steriods debacle, where as Barry has gotten indicted. But lets look at it this way....Does anyone really care about the French and their bike riding? Besides Alke, I dont know a single fan of cycling. So if they all do.....they all do it.

But as for baseball.....We are talking about misleading an entire nation. One that I care about, not France. We are talking about the biggest smear on pro sports in america. Baseball was suffering badly after the strike and if it had not been for Big Mac gettin on the juice, baseball might have been done with. Steriods in baseball is the biggest black spot on any american sport on any level.

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Thanks for challenging me to this Frank.......

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Oh, a challenge you say.

And I don't think Lance would use pedafiles either. It wouldn't make sense.

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I don't know Goods, how can you leave off the best player in MLB history? Arguably anyway. Whether he cheated or not, it's only accusations. What would be your top 20?

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I hate baseball, for the record, and I wouldn't put any player in the top 20. But most people would.

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Many people said the same thing about Rafael Palmeiro in 2005. We all know what happened next.

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Hey Robert Menn.....We did aTD with the top 20 and I didnt put Barry on there. I hate baseball too for the record

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I just saw it Goodell.

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But DWS, Barry is the only player with 500 steals and 500 homeruns. There isn't anyone in a 400/400 club.

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One question Frank, just one question.

Do you have PROOF that Lance used PED's?

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I agree with Do-Work-Son.

Frank, Frank, Frank, haven't you learned anything? People HATE Bonds, no matter what you or I think! I hear you, but respectfully disagree. Lance is loved and Barry is despised, despite his accomplishments.

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My two big problems with Armstrong:

Before Cancer - Lance was a backup rider for the USPS Team.

After Cancer - Lance became the greatest rider in the history of the sport.

Plus, the sport is and has been rampant with Pharmaceuticals from day 1.

How, as the only rider not taking drugs, was he defeating all those who were juicing?

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good point swayze good point

weird photo , but good point

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Lance took many & never failed any tests..........
Bonds never TOOK any tests - since they weren't testing at the time

That's why the 2 are different

Lance was PROVEN not guilty
Bonds will NEVER be able to prove he was legit

- ps- for the record....bonds should be considered the HR king- & SHOULD be in the hall
he worked WITHIN the rules of the system and as others have said- he was the BEST of the juicers....

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"My two big problems with Armstrong:
Before Cancer - Lance was a backup rider for the USPS Team.
After Cancer - Lance became the greatest rider in the history of the sport. "

- It's called GOING INTO YOUR PRIME

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yea, but what about Lance smearing the Americans in international sports?? Trust me in Europe they feel harsher about Lance than we do about Barry b/c they know he failed their test

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Frank, when was the last time you passport was stamped in Pairs??

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