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NMI Tourney - Best DB from 1940-1969

NCshvDavid Throwndowns: 1000 said 06/26, 10:13 AM
My Pick?
Richard Lane

Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox said 06/26, 11:45 PM
Wasn't it my choice to start this per tourney rules? Oh well.

OK, best defensive back from that era wasn't night train, it was Paul Krause, still the all-time leader in interceptions with 81compared to Lanes comparatively weak 68.

Unfortunately for me, 1969 was only Krause's 6th year in the NFL rendering 10 years of his career meaningless for purposes of this debate. However, even in that 6 year window, Krause was amazing with 40 picks and 12 fumbles recovered. Paul was responsible for 52 turnovers in those 6 seasons. He was a turnover machine. Think about that...he averaged 8.7 takeaways per season in that time frame. By comparison, Lane only had 11 fumble recoveries in his entire 14 year career and averaged 5.6 takeaways per season.

NCshvDavid Throwndowns: 1000 said 06/27, 11:03 AM
Lets Look at the 6 years in the Span

Paul Krause Made 2 All-Pros and 3 Pro Bowls thats 33% and 50%
Night Train 5-time All-Pro and 7-time Pro Bowler in 12 years 42% and 58%

But keep in mind that the ProBowl MEANT a LOT more back in those days and the All-Pro has ALWAYS been the much harder team to get on

Krause only lead the NFL in Interceptions ONCE ( actually 1 time his entire career) his ROOKIE year- and in the six year span we are looking at never had more than eight

Lane on the other hand Lead the NFL TWICE in picks

You did fail to mention one little point

the NFL only PLAYED 12 games per year until 1959- Giving Paul 2 more games than Lane to get picks

and in 1952 Lanes rookie year there were only 12 teams
1960 13 and 1961 14 - By 1967 there were 16

Meaning Lane is playing 12 games vs 12 teams and leading the NFL as a rookie with 14 picks and 2 TDs

Paul leads a 14 team NFL as a rookie playing 14 games with 12 and 1 TD
even this slight expansion still does not give Paul more picks rookie year.

In EACH players first 6 years- Lane has 40 INTS and Krause only 42
But PER GAME

Krause every 2.0 games
Lane every 1.8 games

As a Pats fan you know FB is a game of inches

Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox said 06/28, 03:14 AM
Not really sure how the pro bowl MEANT a lot more back then, but I digress

In HIS first six years Night Train was a 3 time pro-bowler and 1 time all-pro. Obviously, considering that point of their careers, the awards thing slightly favors Krause.

But none of that means much. Those are individually voted on seasonal awards, not of any real consequence. The actual performance is far more important

Who cares how many times he "led the league" in INT's? Again, that's a seasonal thing. In Krauses second best INT season he had 10, exactly the same number as Night Train did in HIS second best season. Difference is Lane's 10 was good enough to lead the league in 1954 while Krauses season of 10 was "only" good enough for 2nd the year he accomplished it

We are comparing overall accomplishments, not seasonal awards or accomplishments. And you completely ignore Krause's fumble recovery numbers (just as important as an INT) and that he had more in those 6 years than Night Train did in his entire career

If this were an argument about longevity, then Lane would win hands down as only Krauses first 6 seasons fit the time frame. However, this is about who was the best of the era. That's Krause

NCshvDavid Throwndowns: 1000 said 06/28, 05:59 PM
Once again CCC, you missed part of the stat line

Fumble recoveries yes to mean you got a turnover- But fumbles CAUSED means you actually did most of the work.

Let me put it this way

I nail a guy and he drops the ball and you fall on it- congrats you got a FR- but I got the carrier, I knocked the Ball lose- You just happened to be nearby.

Take 1965 for example- Paul got 5 FR but only CAUSED ONE fumble

actually he only CAUSED ONE fumble in the entire 6 year span.

Lane CAUSED three times that amount in his first 6 years.

And leading the NFL DOES matter- its how you face vs the other players that are playing the same teams and the same era- Krasue played More games and after expansion ( And If you want to bring in career numbers - MASSIVE expansion)

Lane lead the NFL more often
Lane made More All-Pro/Pro Bowls
and Lanes 14 picks are an NFL record STILL- and he did it in TWELVE games
BEFORE expansion! He did it when the WORST NFL QB was still a top 12 QB

And Finally

Lane was ranked #19 on The Sporting News' list of the 100 Greatest Football Players and was the HIGHEST rated Defensive back.

Paul was not ranked in the top 100 (18 DB were picked in the top 100)

Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox said 06/29, 04:20 AM

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Do you mean Night Train Lane?

Big M: Go USA! | 06/26/08, 10:25 AM

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NMI Tourney - Best DB from 1940-1969

NCshvDavid Throwndowns: 1000 beat Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox 8 to 1

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