FanNation - The Republic of Sport

[The] Coach said 07/01, 08:44 AM
Everyone knows about his gambling problems and eventual ban from baseball and the Hall of Fame. They also know that he is the all time hits leader with 4256. What few people know about Charlie Hustle is that he was also a very good with the glove.

My choice for most under-rated defensive player in MLB history is Pete Rose.

He won two gold gloves in 1969 and 1970 as an outfielder, playing left, right and center at times.
Was an all star at a record 5 different positions. (RF/LF/2B/3B/1B)

I have more information but I will wait to see your choice!

[The] Coach said 07/01, 12:57 PM
I knew you would be original, I love debating baseball with you buddy!

Willie Randolph is a great choice and I always believed he was a good second baseman. Rose however was always known for other things such as hits, hussle and enthusiasm to name a few but NOBODY ever mentioned his defense.

Compare:
Randolph - 18 yrs, 2153 games, 11435 Chances, 237 Errors, .979 Fld%

Rose - 24 yrs, 3528 games, 15956 Chances, 213 Errors, .987 Fld%

Facts:
1. Rose had 24 less errors in 1375 more games and 4521 more chances.

2. Rose was asked to learn 6 different positions in his career including all three outfiled positions, first, second and third, while Randolph spent nearly all of his 18 seasons at second.

3. Pete Rose Career Fielding percentage of .987 is the higher than any of the players mentioned in the comments that didn't play first base.
Keep in mind, those guys were known for their defense while Rose was not. Rose also played more games and had more chances than any of them.

Biggio, .985
Ripken, .977
Maddux .970
B. Robinson, .971

More games, more chances to make an error and yet less errors.

Who'd a thunk it?

[The] Coach said 07/01, 01:42 PM
You don't have to convince me that Willie Randolph was a good defensive 2nd baseman, I agree with you.

While he never recieved a gold glove in his career, that had more to do with the quality of players playing his position at the time than any personal slight to Willie by voters. You yourself pointed out that he was competing with White, Whitaker, Grich and Alomar. That is some pretty hefty competition. YOU also pointed out that those four players owned better fielding percentages than did Randolph so it stands to reason they would be getting those gold gloves.

I am not saying that Rose was a better defensive player than Randolph. Randolph, regardless of his lack of gold gloves was known as a very good defensive second baseman, just a notch below those you mentioned. Randolph can't be really be "under-rated." His ability is recognized even without the hardware.

N-O-B-O-D-Y ever thinks of Rose in terms of defense. While he wasn't the best in the league at any of the positions he played, he still played them well and his versatility was an asset to his manager. You wouldn't find the word "defense" anywhere on his plaque in the HOF, IF he were ever to recieve one! ONLY 4256!