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  • July 01, 2008 10:35 AM ET

Rank the QB's in the AFC North

T-fo is Medium Pimpin' (135-64-14) vs Scpalo - takes you to 5th base (21-10-5)
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In a recent comment, Scpalo sez that Ben Roethlisberger is only the third best QB in his division. I disagree. I'll give my rankings, then back 'em up in later arguments. Let's Dance.

1. Roethlisberger
2. Palmer
3. Anderson
4. Brady Quinn (ok kidding) Flacco/Smith/Boller


First things first i said he is second to Palmer and if anderson would continue playing like he did last season he could be considered better also.
but i will try to argue palmer is better than big ben... i know this will be a tough one to win... i stated my personal opinion but i do know what the general consciences is. So here it goes...

Both QBs have been the starters for their teams the past 4 seasons... lets look at the numbers. First numbers will be Palmer second will be Bens.

TDs 104 to 84
Completion % 64.1 to 63.2
INT % 3.1 to 3.8
yards 14889 to 11673
yards a game 244 to 208
been sacked 97 to 146
Ben has a slim 2 point passer rating lead

Ben has also missed at least 1 game each season hes been the starter... since palmer has taken over hes not been hurt or out of the game due to injury.

Ben has also fumbled the ball more.

Now i know PIT as a TEAM is better than CIN but that is not due just the QBs. Ben had a better season LAST YEAR but overall i would rather have Palmer tossing me the ball over Ben anyday.

Palmer led the 10th best O last season while Ben was 17th.... its too bad for cincy PIT allowed the fewest yards last season Cincy was 27th


Since this is really a debate about Palmer vs. Ben, let's confine it to that. I think we both accept that to date, Anderson is third. That said, let's look into these QB's a bit beyond the numbers, and consider the following when comparing those numbers:

1. They have both been starters for four years, but Palmer had the benefit of watching from the sidelines his first year. Ben got thrown in with the wolves right from the start. He responded with 14 wins and a spot in the AFC championship game - oh, and was rookie of the year to boot.

2. It is very hard to compare the career stats of the two as the main indicator. Until last season, the Steelers were, by far, a run first offense. Even with that, their stats are remarkably much closer than many would think without checking it out. Ben leads in completion percentage and QB rating. Far better indicators than raw numbers.

3. Of course Palmer has more yards. He also has more passing attempts 2,036 to 1,436 - 600 MORE!

4. Palmer is a strict drop back immobile QB. Your TD totals don't account for Ben's 8 rushing TD's or his more than 500 yards rushing.

If I'm building a franchise today, I'm taking Ben.


As far as career goes Palmer has a higher completion % by the way.
I admit big ben out performed Palmer last year. But as a career or who i would take on my team it is still palmer.
You mentioned Big Bens rookie year he led his team to 14 wins but i think much of that falls onto the running game and the D. Ben threw for 187 yards a game and 17 TDs...Granted not bad a for a rookie but also can not say he won the 14 games.

you can argue that palmer has thrown more passes but his int% is lower and td% is higher... which really doesn't matter much who throws more by those stats.

His 8 rushing tds are great and all but mobile QB's dont get sacked 47 times a year. Sounds to me like he holds on to the ball too long.

Palmer may not be as mobile as you say big ben is but there is nothing wrong having a good pocket passer if hes accurate which he is. and he gets sacked far less.

Much of Pits success is due to the run game and D

They don't have a D to rely on and that is why they are not a playoff contender... its not palmer hes doing more than his share. One player does not make the playoffs for a team... the whole team has to be rounded, and in CIN its not.


Cincy's team may not be well rounded but their receiving corps are. Over the last 4 yrs you would be hard pressed to come up with a better duo than Ocho and Housh.

Ben has only had Ward for the whole time period-and he's a possession WR. With the wraps off the passing game for the first time last year, the Steelers scratched the surface of what a weapon Ben is.

Back to the playoff wins. Sure it takes a whole team. No question. It also takes a QB who flat out hustles and leads in all aspects. In 2005 playoffs vs. Colts, when Bettis fumbled at the goal line, it was Big Ben who hustled 40 yards downfield and made the game saving tackle. Do you really ever see Palmer making that play? Ever?

It's those sort of intangibles that make a great winning QB. Palmer MIGHT (emphasis intended) put up better career numbers, but so did Marino. When you draw up a list of best-ever though, Dan falls down the list. Why? It takes someone with more than the skills to win, it takes the desire to win.

Some athletes just have IT. Montana had IT. So did Elway and Favre. Brady has IT. So does Ben Roethlisberger. Carson Palmer, for all his talent, does not.


you can not say that palmer doesn't have the desire to win when his team has never put in in a position to make those sort of plays. And i assure you Marino had that desire also.
Palmer may not have the mobility that big ben has but you can not question his desire to win... he gets very frustrated in loses and tried his best to carry his team... he leads a team to score more than 30 points a night often but the D can't stop them from scoring.

I know Dilfer is not the talant Ben is but he lead his team to a super bowl victory... does this mean he has more desire to win than palmer or marino? i doubt that. If Palmer was the starting QB for Pit over the past 4 years and Ben was in Cincy everyone would be singing a different song.
As far as weapons go Holmes is becoming a very good WR and Heath Miller is no bum. he has the targets to throw too its that simple.
Sometimes a WR makes a QB look good. sometimes a QB makes a WR look good.

I am not doubting TJ or Ochos skills but i think much of states should reflect palmer and vice versa... its not like palmer just throws the ball in the air in hopes the TJ or Chad get there and catch it.
btw IND has better Duo of WR

Comments (118) Add A Comment

July 1, 2008  11:39 AM ET
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Sean Taylor should have gone #1... he was a top 3 saftey in the league Big Ben is not a top 3 QB hes only the second or third best QB in his own division.
Scpalo - takes you to 5th base | 07/01/08, 09:11 AM
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Come on Scpalo - back up your comments I copied above from this TD: http://www.fannation.com/throwdowns/show/188997

July 1, 2008  11:43 AM ET
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I seem to remember a saying about someone have an alligator mouth and a chicken you-know-what...

Seems Scpalo is backing down from his comments. Here's the response he mailed me:

"first thing i said hes second best to palmer and third its my opinion no way in hell would i win that TD nor would it be that hard of a fight for you to win"

If you are going to toss your opinions around here, be prepared to defend them.

July 1, 2008  11:43 AM ET
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I don't think I'd put Big Ben first. And I say that as someone who's followed him since Miami...We'll see what Scpalo says.

July 1, 2008  11:45 AM ET
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I agree TFo....people as of late are willing to say anything in comments and then not have the stones to accept a direct challenge regarding their own comment/opinion/statements. If you can't defend what you say, why bother saying it at all?

July 1, 2008  11:46 AM ET
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I definitely think it could be argued Porkins...but I can't get Scpalo to back up his talk.

July 1, 2008  11:47 AM ET
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more worried about his won-lost record than the truth

July 1, 2008  11:47 AM ET
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Actually, first is a tossup for me.

July 1, 2008  11:48 AM ET
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I definitely think it could be argued Porkins...but I can't get Scpalo to back up his talk.

T-fo is back | 07/01/08, 11:46 AM


Yep. You gotta back it up if you're gonna say it.

July 1, 2008  11:50 AM ET
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I think it would be an interesting TD...if anyone else is up to the challenge, let me know.

July 1, 2008  11:54 AM ET
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and here the whole time I was thinking it was Quinn for sure

July 1, 2008  11:56 AM ET
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scalpo?

July 1, 2008  11:57 AM ET
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If we are talking about QB's and QB's only....I have to go with Palmer over Ben. But for the sake of the TD and for the sake of the world, Ben is NOT the 3rd best in the North. At worst he is second....

July 1, 2008  12:04 PM ET
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1. Palmer - consistently good
2. Big Ben - no explanation needed for a Super Bowl winning QB
3. Anderson - one good season at this point so I can't put him above the other two
4. Smith - he probably will get the nod for the Ravens and probably will struggle

July 1, 2008  12:06 PM ET
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I think what i said was mistaken in the previous post... i said he is the second or third best QB in the division if anderson continues to play as he did last season he COULD be considered better.. but currently he is second best to palmer as i stated...2nd 3rd only if anderson continues his last season ways.


T-FO you are one really arrogant prick... i messaged you saying it would be hard for me to win i said nothing about not taking it.... if you are so convinced i am worried about my win loss record look into some of the TDs i have accepted... i could care less how much of a winner anyone on this site thinks i am... i am just hear to debate sports... i am not so low that i would post peoples messages to me to try and gain support.

July 1, 2008  12:07 PM ET
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lmao palmer got his knee blowed out in a game and had to leave, doesn't that count for your "since palmer has taken over hes not been hurt or out of the game due to injury. "

July 1, 2008  12:08 PM ET
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scalpo is all fired up today

July 1, 2008  12:08 PM ET
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he never missed a game is what i meant... but your right he did blow a knee

July 1, 2008  12:09 PM ET
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he left early so i take a hit there

July 1, 2008  12:13 PM ET
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Scalpo, you seem like a sane person. Give T-Fo the benefit of the doubt. He's not a jerk. There are plenty of people on this site who are far more deserving of that title.

 
July 1, 2008  12:17 PM ET
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well if he's going to call me out like a prick then he deserves the title... kind of a childish approach to a site should should be respectable.

i probably should not have said anything at all but today has been a long day for me... 18 hours of work and when you have mortars flying over your head you seem to get kinda stressed.. so for that i am sorry T-fo i should not have said what i did.

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