Throwdowns > Completed

Views
8
Comments
7
  • July 01, 2008 06:21 PM ET

An Active Tournament Group: Round 1 (Cheezhead vs. Foosball): Best MLB Pitcher in the 1960's

Cheezhead: Is Most Likely Gone (130-96-5) vs Foosball (68-9-2)
2
Votes
9
Votes
2
Votes
9
Votes


So we both have two, equal shots at each other, we'll list first.

I'm going with Sandy Koufax.

Good luck, Foos.


I'll go with one of the dominate pitchers to ever play the game ...

All time St. Louis Cardinal great....

Bob Gibson


Stats don't lie, so let's look at the stats both of these pitchers had during the 1960's:


Sandy Koufax:

137-60 record (69.5%)
2.36 ERA
512 Walks
1910 strikeouts


Bob Gibson:
164-105 record (61%)
2.74 ERA
822 walks
2071 strikeouts


Don't let the strikeout stat fool you, though. Gibson pitched 639.8 innings more than Koufax (71 complete games) but only threw 161 more strikeouts. That means on average Koufax threw more strikeouts.

He beat Gibson in winning percentage and ERA, also. So what makes Gibson better?


You didn't mention that Koufax retired after the 66 season at the peak of his career. But in terms of the entire decade of the 60's from start to finish, Gibson was the best. He was 1 of the most durable & intimidating pitchers in the history of MLB.

Only a part of his stats have been shown, here are Gibson's other 1960's stats & facts...

He had as many complete games as wins (164)
41 Shutouts
2447 IP
4 20+ Win seasons
Was in the top 5 for K's every yr in the NL 61-69, 1st in 68
5 straight Gold gloves (65-69) 9 career
2 World Series MVP (64,67)
35 K's during a WS (68) WS Record
17 K's in a WS game (68) a WS Record beating Koufax's mark of 15 set in 63

In the 1967 WS, Gibson gave up only 14 hits & 3 earned runs in 3 CG wins tying a 1905 record, & also hit a home run in the deciding Game 7. He hit 26 career HR's with 2 of those in WS games.

1968 was his best yr.
22-9 1.12 ERA 28CG 13 shutouts, 268Ks, 304 IP with a streak of 47 consecutive scoreless innings & went 92 innings only giving up 2 runs (almost a 1/3 of his season). His season was so good that MLB decided to lower the mound by 5 inches for the 69 season.


But Koufax did do much better than Gibson while he was still playing. You say that he retired when he was at the peak of his career. Well, wouldn't that mean that he'd keep doing better until maybe '68 or '69, when he'd start to decline? If that would be the case, then he would've been better than Gibson for the whole decade.

Sure, for everything that Gibson did that you listed, that's good icing on the cake and all, but the only stats that matter the most is how many wins you have, how many times you lost, and how much do you let runs (earned) pass the plate. All of that other stuff is just stats that support the guy's effectiveness. But you aren't better by being effective; you're better by winning more and stopping runs, not by strikeouts, complete games, MVP's, and things like that. Those things just say you're good. Wins, losses, and ERA determine who's better.

And if the stats are right, Koufax did better in the stats that matter the most.


Koufax last season (66) he went 27-9 with a 1.73 ERA. He was at his peak and he retired at 30.

Gibson's 1968 season won him the Cy Young and MVP award but his dominance continued into the early 70's as well. In 1970 he won his 2nd Cy Young going 23-7 and he finished 4th in the MVP vote. Gibson pitched until the 1975 season when he retired at 39. He won 15+ games 10 times in his career, 8 of those occurred in the 60's.

Koufax was a great pitcher but he wasn't intimidating. Gibson most certainly was..." his leg broken earlier in the 67 season from a line drive by Roberto Clemente, after which, Gibson pitched to two more batters to close out the inning. The next time he faced Clemente he threw a pitch over Clemente's head which forced Clemente to take a dive into the dirt of the batter's box." Hank Aaron once said "Don't dig in against Bob Gibson, he'll knock you down. He'd knock down his own grandmother if she dared to challenge him." (both quotes from Wikipedia)

As I said earlier in terms of the entire decade from start to finish, Gibson was the most Dominate and Intimidating pitcher of the 1960's.

Comments (7) Add A Comment

July 1, 2008  08:11 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Ouch. That is not the era to do this. should be Kofax is excluded.

July 2, 2008  09:09 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Please wait until at least 2nd argument is completed b4 voting

July 3, 2008  08:18 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

good throwdown.

July 3, 2008  08:24 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

This vote was effortless
<----------------------------------

July 4, 2008  09:03 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Good throwdown. The stats are great for both. The only thing that gives more weight to Foosball's choice is Gibson played for more of the era which allowed us to view a greater body of work. With that being said, I would have liked to have seen what Koufax was capable of doing in a longer career.

Foosball; never site comments from Wikipedia. Anyone can go in and change those. So they are not concidered to be fact.

July 4, 2008  09:04 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

I'm going to hae to vote to Foosball. Better arguments in my opinion.

 
July 4, 2008  09:58 PM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Yeah, I had a problem arguing, he had better arguments. I'm not afraid to admit it.

Comment

Remember to keep your posts clean. Profanity will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.


Leaderboard

  Fan W L T Win %
1 DetroitFan* BS: Start Stanton! 132 9 7 91.6%
2 Porkins: Catches bullets 138 13 1 91.1%
3 Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD 52 5 1 90.5%
4 The Ram 138 17 4 88.1%
5 Foosball 68 9 2 87.3%
6 Philly-- www.sportsnoise.com 74 11 4 85.4%
7 Hyped78 113 19 5 84.3%
8 Dookie: Here We Go Steelers 117 19 8 84.0%
9 [The] Coach 97 18 5 82.9%
10 BSchwartz07 129 27 6 81.5%

Truth & Rumors

MOST POPULAR

  1. 1
    Jerry tries to pep up sulking T.O.
    Views
    9770
    Comments
    1132
  2. 2
    Plaxico shows no remorse
    Views
    3681
    Comments
    878
  3. 3
    Teixeira good fit for Yankees?
    Views
    9867
    Comments
    632
  4. 4
    Brewers considering run at Sabathia
    Views
    4377
    Comments
    508
  5. 5
    Burnett won't be on market long
    Views
    6708
    Comments
    151

Weekly Most Active Users

Comments + Blog Posts + Throwdowns

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5

Message Boards

  1. MMA > Fight Club

    Who will be the new 'face of…
    Views
    923
    Replies
    6

  2. NFL > General NFL

    Ed Hochuli needs to be FIRED!!
    Views
    361
    Replies
    22

  3. Fantasy > Football

    Get Maroney, give Edge...Do I…
    Views
    85
    Replies
    3

Blogs

SI.com

Swimsuit

Jessica TrainhamJessica Trainham
Erin CarlisleErin Carlisle

SI Photos

Rookies to Watch in the NHLRookies to Watch in the NHL
Dominant Pitching SeasonsDominant Pitching Seasons

SI Vault