snora said 07/01, 05:21 PM
Obviously, the popular pick here is Josh Hamilton, and deservedly so. He's driven in 80 runs already and has been one of the best stories of the year. I tip my virtual hat to Josh, but cannot give him the AL MVP award if the season ended today.
As little as 3 and a half months ago, no one even though Quentin was going to make the White Sox opening day roster. He had been tagged as injury prone, and possible a bust prospect. The Diamondbacks had given up on him to pursue other options.
3 months in to the season, and Quentin has proven himself to be the savior of the White Sox. As the rest of the teams veterans began the season on a massive cold streak, Quentin carried the Sox and their struggling veterans (Thome, Konerko, Cabrera, Swisher) and put the team on his 25 year old shoulders. Lets take a look at some of his stats:
19 HR - tied for 1st in AL
.928 POS - 5th in AL
61 RBI - 3rd in AL
54 runs - 5th in AL
Clearly, this stat line is very impressive. While Hamilton (with 80 RBI's) may or may not be the more talented player, I still believe Quentin has been a more valuable player than Josh. Q means more to the Sox success than any other player does to their team in the A
dudeman. said 07/01, 05:42 PM
Yes, I will take Josh Hamilton. The biggest reason is because Quentin ISN'T the most valuable player on his team, contrary to what you said. That honor goes to Jermaine Dye. Now, Dye's numbers aren't better than Quentin's, although most categories are virtual ties. For example, Dye has 18 homers to Quentin's 19. 50 runs to Quentin's 54 and a OPS of .912 to Quentin's .928.
But see, Dye is more important to the Sox's success than Quentin. For example, in the past week, when the Sox went 6-1 here were the stats (Dye first):
Hits: 10 vs. 9
RBI: 8 vs. 4
BB: 4 vs. 2
That proves that when Dye is on base, the Sox are winning. What makes it even more clear that Dye is more valuable is that last week was easily the Sox's most impressive when they took 2 out of 3 from the Dodgers, swept the Cubs AT Wrigley and beat the Indians.
Now, for my Hamilton argument I'll post some stat comparisons from this season (Josh first):
HR: 19 vs. 19 (Tie)
RBI: 80 vs. 61 (Josh)
AVG: .312 vs. .284 (Josh)
Runs: 52 vs. 54 (Carlos)
OBP: .363 vs. .391 (Carlos)
SLG%: .563 vs. .537 (Josh)
Josh wins 3-2-1. Josh has led the Rangers offense. All they need now is pitching.
Out of room.
snora said 07/01, 06:37 PM
Three points:
1) JD is not the MVP of the White Sox. Yes, he has been on an absolute TEAR the past two weeks, but prior to that he was not the offensive center of the Sox. Even when he was the AL player of the week, the White Sox still got swept by the Cubs. MVP of the past two weeks, yes, but not MVP of the season.
2) Let's take a look at this stat line which I think one ups the difference in RBI's
Average with runners in scoring position:
Quentin - .368, 5 HRs
Hamilton - .323, 4 HRs
Quentins average with RISP is out of control. Even though Hamilton outdoes him in sheer RBI, Quentin has hit significantly better in RBI situations. The difference in RBI is because Hamilton has had men on bases much more than Carlos Quentin...which leads to my third point....
3) Carlos Quentin has, for the majority of the season, put the White Sox offense on his shoulders. They are in 1st place in the AL central and there is no way they would be without CQ. Hamilton, while also important, has been hitting in one of the majors best scoring offense with a lot of talent (Kinsler, Young, Bradley) around him that has not been as cold as the Sox vets. Ergo - Quentin = more valuable than Josh.
dudeman. said 07/02, 02:39 PM
1) Quentin doesn't lead the Sox in AVG (Dye does), SLG% (Dye does) and hits (Dye is 2nd). Those are three key categories, and I doubt you can say that Quentin is the best offensive player on that team. BUT if you still believe that, remember that he hits before DYE, so he gets a lot of fastballs, while Dye hits before Thome who's been bad this season (.232 AVG, .354 OBP).
2) Sure, he may be clutch, but with no one on he's hitting a measly .231. That shows that he barely provides offense by himself, and he needs the hitter ahead of him to hit. That also shows that it may only be because of the pitcher that the team is facing. Also, 11 of his 19 homers are solo homers.
3) Hamilton leads his team in homers and RBI, and is 3rd in AVG among qualified leaders. Milton Bradley went down, and Ian Kinsler hasn't been big to their success. In April, Kinsler hit .305 while the Rangers tanked and went 10-17. Hamilton has been their catalyst all season, and if the Rangers had pitching they could be challengers for the AL West title.
snora said 07/02, 02:58 PM
1) Again, you clearly have not been following the Sox the entire season. Dye has had a terrific two weeks but was struggling mightily before that, especially with his power. Any analyst, ANYONE familiar with the team knows that Carlos Quentin has been the linchpin of the organization and the central reason they have the record they do.
2) He also has launched 11 home runs with no one on, so he still finds a way to produce runs. The vast difference in their avg with RISP shows Quentin has OUTPERFORMED Hamilton in RBI situations despite Hamilton having more RBI.
3) Ian Kinsler hasn't been big to their offensive success? Are you kidding me? Kinsler is hitting .324 with 13 Hrs, 50 RBI, 23 SB, and 73 runs scored. I know 29 GMs who would love to have him hitting at the top of their order. Hamilton has been a strong component of a terrific offense.
4) Quentin ALSO leads his team in homers and RBI (yes, more than Jermaine Dye). He also has clearly been hitting in a less than stellar offense. So until you argue something new, I have to stand by my assertion that Carlos Quentin is the MVP of the AL. He is a fantastic player that has been absolutely essential to his 1st place team.
dudeman. said 07/03, 11:25 AM
1) Are you saying that Dye's only leading the team because of the last two weeks? He's hit 18 homers in the last 2 weeks? He's gotten his hits in the last 2 weeks? Dye started slow and has come around recently, it's been vice versa for Quentin.
2) Hamilton is THE catalyst to the Rangers' offense. Kinsler has been getting hot, but Hamilton has been the most consistent all season. I know 29 GMs that would give a lot to have an offensive player like Hamilton hitting 3rd or 4th in their lineup.
3) Quentin has only 1 more homer than Dye...not that much of a difference. Sure the gap in RBIs may be different, but I'm sure Dye will change that soon.
4) I still can't believe that you believe Hamilton is less essential to the Rangers than Quentin is to the Sox. Atleast the Sox have some pitching, without their offense, the Rangers are NOTHING. Who's the best offensive player on the Rangers? Josh Hamilton.
If the season ended today, the AL MVP would easily go to Josh Hamilton.
Comments (23)
*POS clearly should be OPS....sorry guys
snora | 07/01/08, 05:22 PM
Report Offensive CommentAs little as 2 years ago NO ONE thought Josh would still be alive, so who gives a crap about Quentin being considered a bad ball player 3 months ago.
With that being said this solely comes down to what they have done ON the field.
Nickb23- Brandon McDonald, HA! | 07/01/08, 05:33 PM
Report Offensive CommentMariano Rivera, I don't know how to argue it, but he just is
Dawgee | 07/01/08, 05:35 PM
Report Offensive CommentI was thinking Mo, and don't call me a homer.
Coletrain | 07/01/08, 05:36 PM
Report Offensive Commentcan I call you a cab?
Porkins: Pisses Excellence | 07/01/08, 05:45 PM
Report Offensive CommentI was thinking Mo as well...but I already argued for Cy Young, seems like a waste to go through the motions again.
Lifer: Metallica Sucks! | 07/01/08, 05:45 PM
Report Offensive CommentYea, i was just about to say. It would have been fun to argue for Mo in this one. It would have really helped your TD rep D-Man
Gu3 is Huff Daddy | 07/01/08, 05:46 PM
Report Offensive CommentIf you must Porkins.
Coletrain | 07/01/08, 05:46 PM
Report Offensive CommentYea, i was just about to say. It would have been fun to argue for Mo in this one. It would have really helped your TD rep D-Man
Gu3- O's Still Over .500 | 07/01/08, 05:46 PM
Report Offensive Comment
He has the Cy Young to win. Plus, he didn't even come to my mind.
dudeman. | 07/01/08, 05:51 PM
Report Offensive CommentGood arguements you to, im leaning left but ill wait
Ny - Ready For Change | 07/01/08, 06:13 PM
Report Offensive CommentI was thinking Mo, and don't call me a homer.
Coletrain | 07/01/08, 05:36 PM
Homer.
Yankees suck.
Nickb23- Brandon McDonald, HA! | 07/01/08, 06:25 PM
Report Offensive CommentSomeone's been reading Verducci.
Moondizzle...The Original. | 07/01/08, 06:32 PM
Report Offensive CommentSays the man who picked Hamilton.
Coletrain | 07/01/08, 07:01 PM
Report Offensive CommentChris Davis!!
Nickb23- Brandon McDonald, HA! | 07/01/08, 07:07 PM
Report Offensive CommentSays the man who picked Hamilton.
Coletrain | 07/01/08, 07:01 PM
I don't know what you are talking about???
Nickb23- Brandon McDonald, HA! | 07/01/08, 07:07 PM
Report Offensive CommentI would pick Josh Hamilton.
Dyhard -- Badgers/Brewers won | 07/01/08, 07:44 PM
Report Offensive CommentI would pick Josh Hamilton.
dyhard needs 1 more win! | 07/01/08, 07:44 PM
He hasn't impressed you at all, so i don't want to hear it. hahaha
Nickb23- Brandon McDonald, HA! | 07/01/08, 07:46 PM
Report Offensive Commentyou cant compare the last 6 games when this is an entire half a season of ball play......so i dont wanna hear about dye....and the SOX GOT swept at wrigley and then swept the cubs at HOME (US CELLULAR)....
Steveo16220 is a GGTK | 07/01/08, 09:49 PM
Report Offensive CommentDUDEMAN,....not being mean but did you watch the cubs sox series? have you seen dye play ALL season long? and on top of it, when half your argument is based off a better player within the Sox team than carlos, instead of a better MVP...i cant give you my vote
Steveo16220 is a GGTK | 07/01/08, 09:54 PM
Report Offensive Commentquention? NO DEAL.
Its Hamilton and it aint really even that close.
vote RIGHT
FAVREistheman | 07/02/08, 03:55 AM
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