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  • July 07, 2008 04:44 PM ET

NMI tourney Final round: #6 0x vs #9 Cincy Best Cy Young season ever. (I think this is for 8th place,woohoo!8th place!or maybe 7th......)

(Cincy) (37-45-10) vs 0x NBA/NFL Champion (66-15-11)
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Now since the inception of the Cy Young award in 1956 there have been quite a few valiant efforts over the years that deserve to be talked among the best of them.But one just stands way above the others:Bob Gibson's 1968 season.

I know what you'll say,but he flat out dominated the league that year,you'll say it was called "The year of the pitcher" which it was,but he had the best live ball era season of any pitcher,as far as ERA goes at least.

Here's some stats:

1.12 ERA
13 shutouts
stretch of 92 innings giving up only 2 ER's
47 consecutive scoreless innings
22 wins 9 losses(no run support from that anemic offense)

Just a flat out unbelievable season.


Gibson had a great year. I narrowed my choices down to Steve Carlton in 1972 and Dwight Gooden in 1985. I am going to go with Gooden, and I will explain why. Here is some of what he did:

24 W's- LED LEAGUE
268 K's- LED LEAGUE
1.53 ERA- LED LEAGUE

As you can see, Gooden won the Pitching Triple Crown, which has only been done 12 times since 1940 in BOTH leagues. Something that Gibson did not do. Gooden also had:

16 CG's - LED LEAGUE
276.66 IP- LED LEAGUE
8 Shutouts- 2nd in league

As you can see, Gooden led the league in arguably the five most important categories for pitching. Twice that year, he pitched NINE INNING SHUTOUTS and got no decisions, which could have easily been 2 more wins. In his 5 L's, he allowed just 26 HITS IN 28 INNINGS!

Next, consider the fact that Dwight Gooden was just 20 years old! Imagine dominating the NL at just 20 years old. Then, throw in the fact that he played in New York. New York is probably the hardest city to play in, and Gooden managed to dominate while playing their when he was just 20.

Then, look at what he did in September. In the middle of the pennant race, he went:

4-0
.34 ERA

One of the best endings to a season that was the best ever.


I'm gonna argue more on Gibson's behalf here than against Gooden's.

Gibson also had 268 SO's(but in 304 innings of work).

He gave up 4 ER's twice.Never gave up more than 4.
Gave up 1 HR in July
Gave up 0 ER's in a game 15 times
gave up 1 ER in a game 9 times
His ERA never went over 2.35(earlier in Season)
Gave up 11 HR's all year
Pitched at least 9 innings in 19 straight starts,I know it was still a different ERA,but even that is incredible.Just falt out jaw dropping

Here are the ER's he gave up in his 9 losses:
1 ER 3 times
2 ER 4 times
3 ER 2 times

He didn't get much from his bats.

The Cardinals of 1968 had an anemic offense

Their three best offensive producers were:

Orlando Cepeda- .248 BA 16 HR's 73 RBI's
Mike Shannon- .266 BA 15 HR's 79 RBI's
Lou Brock- .279 BA 6 HR 51 RBI's 62 SB

As you see he got minimal support.

Even in "The Year of the pitcher" he stood heads and shoulders above the rest.


As you said, Gibson had 268 K's in 304 IP. Gooden had 268 K's in just 276 IP. That is an incredible stat, and it shows just how flat-out dominating Gooden was. He had the same amount of K's in 28 less innings pitched. He also gave up the same amount of hits; in 28 less IP.

Gooden- 24 wins-4 losses
Gibson- 22 wins- 9 losses

So Gooden had more wins AND less losses.

Gibson had an incredible ERA of 1.13. But as you said it was "THE YEAR OF THE PITCHER". The AVERAGE ERA WAS UNDER 3! So by comparison, what Gooden did was far more impressive. Remember, his ERA was also an incredible 1.53! His 1.53 ERA is the best of the modern era.

Gooden also had some tremendous feats:

Threw two 2 hitters
Threw a 3 hitter
Threw two 4 hitters
Threw two 5 hitters
Won 14 straight games
48 straight innings without an earned run
49 straight innings without an earned run

As you can see, Gooden twice went 48+ innings without allowing an earned run; which is incredibly impressive.

Gooden did go 24-4, which is a great record. But he started off fairly slow. After May 25th, Gooded only lost 1game! It was a game he lost 3-2. What does it mean? For almost four months, Gooden was flat-out unbeatable.


Gibson should have won the pitching triple crown just as well.He didn't lead in wins but that was influenced,again,by the bats.

Here's another crazy stat:

Over a period of 19 starts,Gibson averaged 9.6 Innings per game!9.6 PER GAME!The shortest outing he had on the season were his first two outings witch were 7 innings each.Gooden had a 2.1 inning start.

In 304 innings,Gibson gave up 49 runs

In 276 innings Gooden gave up 51

Gibson walked 7 less men in 28 more innings.

The thing is,with all this lack of support,and the rest of the staff was of no greatness either,Gibson at least managed to make the red birds an ok club.Gooden's squad was a better team.So gibson's 9 losses should not come into factor.

I got nothing else.Great argument 0x.


Yes, but he didn't. Gooden did. He should of, could of, it's all relative at some point. Gooden did it, and Gibson didn't. That's nothing against Gibson, he had a great year. But Gooden's was better.

Yes, Gooden gave up two more runs. But he pitched in a much tougher era. 1968 was "The Year of the Pitcher". Carl Yastrzemski had the LOWEST BA of a batting title winner of all time. The BA for the league was .240, the LOWEST OF ALL TIME. The slugging % was .340, the LOWEST OF ALL TIME.

In 1985, Gooden pitched in a year that was far more difficult for the pitcher. In 1985, 17 players hit .300+. In 1968, just 6 players .300+.

In 1985, 13 players hit 30+ HR's. In 1968, just 7 players hit 30+ HR's.

In 1985, 4 players had 200+ hits, while 4 more had at least 197 hits. In 1968, just 2 players had 200+ hits, and no one in the AL had more than 177.

Both pitchers had great seasons, but Gooden did his in a harder era, and was more dominant that Gibson was. Take a look:

24-4- LED LEAGUE IN W'S
268 K's- LED LEAGUE IN K'S
1.53 ERA- LED LEAGUE IN ERA
16 CG's- LED LEAGUE IN CG
276.7 IP- LED LEAGUE IN IP
8 SO's- 2ND IN LEAGUE

Gooden did this when he was just 20 years old, playing in New York.

July 7, 2008  04:44 PM ET

Good luck 0x.

July 7, 2008  04:45 PM ET

Correction!

It's for 7th place,and 0x is a 7 seed.

July 7, 2008  06:26 PM ET

You too, Cincy.

July 7, 2008  06:26 PM ET

Just to clarify, I got most of my stuff from WIkipedia and BaseballReferance.

July 7, 2008  08:53 PM ET

Just for the record, Gooden was 24-4, not 24-?

July 7, 2008  11:12 PM ET

Same goes for me,I look it up on wiki and baseballreference.com

July 8, 2008  02:28 PM ET

Haha, "Reggie Bush Highlights" sponsors Gooden's BaseballReferance page.

July 8, 2008  03:17 PM ET

Odd

July 8, 2008  03:55 PM ET

I know, right?

July 8, 2008  04:01 PM ET

oops sorry,kinda been dazed,I could have made an argument like half an hour ago but I forgot.

July 8, 2008  04:13 PM ET

Haha. Don't worry about it.

July 8, 2008  04:43 PM ET

Great throwdown, Cincy.

July 8, 2008  05:11 PM ET

Nice title Cincy..lol

July 8, 2008  05:12 PM ET

Wow, I was the only person to make a comment on this TD that WASN'T part of the TD.

July 8, 2008  05:12 PM ET

Yay, dyhard!

July 8, 2008  05:14 PM ET

After the first arguments, I'm definitely leaning to the right. Great first arument, 0x. Moving on...

Cincy, in your second argument, you just rattled off numbers without comparing them to Dwight's, which could have helped your argument tremendously. However, you also somewhat contradicted yourself. You said it was the "Year of the Pitcher" and then put stats of their best hitters to show how bad they were. Well, in the "Year of the Pitcher" OBVIOUSLY hitting numbers will look bad. Really good argument by 0x in his second. Still leaning right.

Both third arguments were decent, but the second argument of 0x was what won me over. Vote right. Good throwdown, guys.

July 8, 2008  05:19 PM ET

I like 0x's arguments a little better. Vote to the right.

July 8, 2008  06:07 PM ET

I hate to see talent go to waste. I mean there are so many athletes with all the God-given ability in the world who have no work ethic and decide to throw their lives away. Gooden is a prime example. As a Mets fan, I find it terribly disappointing...what could have been? Still, Doc was a beast for the Mets, vote right.

July 8, 2008  11:34 PM ET

Nice td,looks like you'll come out on top.

 
July 9, 2008  06:43 AM ET

I believe it was Gibson but 0x's arguments were better.

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