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  • July 07, 2008 08:48 PM ET

Pro Triangle Tourny Championship:Which division winner last year won't win it this year and who will? (NFL)

Philly-- www.sportsnoise.com (74-11-4) vs Ghost. (163-43-10)
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Good Luck Ghost

The team that won their division last year that will not win it again this year has to be the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Cleveland Browns will win the AFC North this upcoming season.

The Steelers are still a good team but there are a few reasons why I believe that they will not win the division again.

First, a ridiculously tough schedule. Probably the toughest schedule I have ever seen. Lets take a quick look.

vs. Houston
@ Cleveland
@ Philadelphia
Baltimore
@ Jacksonville
Bye
@ Cincinnati
NY Giants
@ Washington
Indianapolis
San Diego
Cincinnati
@ New England
Dallas
@ Baltimore
@ Tennessee
Cleveland

There are no easy wins in that schedule only very tough games. They play 8 participants of last years playoffs, including both Superbowl participants. They also play teams that were on the verge of making the playoffs, teams like the Eagles, Texans, and Browns twice. That leaves the final 4 games for division foes Baltimore and Cincy, both of who had bad seasons last year but neither are pushovers.

There are also other reasons but I am out of room.


My team, unlike yours, is actually bad.

My team, unlike yours, had an easy schedule and still posted a worse record.

The Steelers, thought they have a hard schedule are still an elite team in the AFC, with one of the best defenses and a solid QB to lead the offense.

My team, though they won, played in a horrible division, where the other team where marked by a season of injuries.

In fact, they ended the season back-pedalling losing the last two, and lucky to be in the division they were in.

Being that as it may, the other teams have gotten their players healthy and added some key additions.

The Bucs' hold of the division will be no more. I got the Saints taking it.

With their pick of Sedrick Ellis, additions of Morgan and Gay they look to toughen up their D.

Their offense led by Brees, Bush & McCallister and a solid WR core are the most dangerous offense in the NFC South.

Oh, and the teams they play?

49ers, Raiders, Falcons twice, Lions, Bears, Panthers twice, Chiefs, Vikings...

Look for the Saints to take the division from the No-QB Bucs.


The second reason that the Steelers will not win their division is because of a huge free agent loss.

Alan Faneca left the Steelers and is now a Jet. Faneca has been the best player on the Steelers line for years. He is also known as one of the best OG in the game. How do you replace a 7 time Pro Bowler and 5 time All Pro on an already shaky offensive line. Last year the Steelers line gave up 47 sacks good for 7th most in the NFL, now the lost their best Olinemen.

As for the Bucs and Saints. The Bucs still have a solid team and fixed some of their biggest needs by adding OLinemen Jeff Faine from the Saints. They too have a pretty easy schedule only playing 4 playoff teams. The Saints play 5.

The Bucs lost their last 2 last year but so did the Saints, losses to the Bears and Eagles.

Sedrick Ellis is a rookie, how much can he help? Morgan has retired and won't make any difference. Gay will not fix the huge problems the Saints have in their secondary. They gave up 245ypg, good for 3rd worst in the league.

Bush has yet to be the force he was supposed to be and is just an average back. McAllister is a huge question mark, coming off his 2nd knee injury in as many year


The Bucs have also suffered some losses, especially on their O-Line with Wade and Lehr going to other teams.

Their roster containing 6 QBs is a clear reflection that their offense is doing poorly with their main receiver being a 36 year old.

And with no real improves to their offense (18th in ypg), their D is not good enough to carry them like the Steelers' D is.

And even though, considering all the Qs you posted about the Saints Offense, they still managed to be 4th in NFL in ypg and 12th in pts.

The Saints D isn't as bad as you make them out to be, though it is true they were weak last year in the secondary, they have gotten some new guys for that.

And here's a little factoid for you: Saints D allowed less rush yds than the Bucs D.

The Saints are actually a NFC version of the Browns, regular D, but a very potent Offense.

Now lets get common sense in here.

You're saying the Browns, which have a worse offense than the Saints, will outlast the Steelers, which have a better team than the Bucs. Right?!

And yet a better Saints team beating out a horrible offensive team like the Bucs is less plausible??


You mentioned losing Oline, they lost Wade but replaced him with Faine, a sure upgrade.

Their other lose mentioned...Lehr. He is replaceable too, he didn't start 1 game and saw most of his time playing special teams. I wouldn't considered those big losses.

The Bucs have been know for a great defense and they can rely on their D to carry them. Last year they allowed just 16.9ppg good for 3rd in the league, 278 ypg good for 2nd best, just 170pass yards per game which was the best in the NFL, and 108 rushing yard per game. They still have a dominant defense.

So the Saints D allowed less rypg than the Bucs. The rest of their D can not compete. The Bucs have the best pass D the Saints have the worst. There is only a few players that can make a big enough difference to fix that D, the Saints are not lucky enough to have one.

Since when do the Saints have a better offense than the Browns? In PPG, the only offensive stat that matter when winning games, the Browns had the 8th best average, the Saints the 13th best.

It comes down to the fact that the Steelers have the toughest schedule in the leaugue, no matter how good a team they are, they will have a tough time breaking .500.


Here's my argument for the Steelers...I'll outline to have enough room to talk about the Browns as well.

1) Steelers dominate at home, independant of who they face, they have been consistant these past 4-5 yrs at getting around 6 wins at home. They feed off the crowd and it's one of the toughest places to win in the NFL.

2) Their # 1 ranked Defense is still intact and healthy for this year. Though they may have a tough schedule, they have the toughest D in the NFL to match it.

3) Their offense may not be the best, but it's solid in all positions, from Ben to Davenport/ Parker duo.


The Browns on the other hand...

1) Derek Anderson is reliable at QB? All the hype aside...17th in QB Rating.

2) Their schedule?
Dallas, Steelers twice, Giants, Jaguars, Colts, Broncos, Eagles...

And how exactly will the Browns have a better record?

Do the Browns have an "easier" schedule? Yes.
Is it an "easy" schedule? No.
Are they better than the Steelers? No.

Even IF they have a close schedule, this last stat shows it all...

Division record last 3 yrs...

Steelers: 12-6
Browns: 4-14

Look for the Steelers to dominate their division yet another year.

July 7, 2008  09:26 PM ET

leaning right, will wait for arguments

July 7, 2008  11:47 PM ET

The Dark Lord actually read this this argument for once. WHAT A MISTAKE! I am clawing out my eyes as I type! That is how bad this throwdown is. You two fools have only confirmed what I already believe about you silly mortals and I will NOT make the mistake of ever reading through an entire throwdown again.

I will stick to skimming them over and making crazy allegations and half baked, one sided arguments in a immoral attempt to prove my godly superiority over you foolish mortals! Muahahahahahaaha!

July 7, 2008  11:47 PM ET

"Vikings..."

That's a loss...

July 8, 2008  09:47 AM ET

Someone's on crack during the summer vacation....

July 8, 2008  01:33 PM ET

The Saints are the much better pick. As much as I hate to be a broken record I will say it again. No team since the realignment to the NFC South has repeated as the winner of that division. But more importantly than that I think Ghost has really made a great point in that the Bucs best WR is a 36 year old Galloway. I like the guy but eventually age catches up to all good receivers. Cadillac might also be out and while Graham and Pittman can carry the load neither is a Cadillac. The Saints should have a better defense this year to go along with their high powered offense.

July 8, 2008  11:15 PM ET

Good TD ghost, looks like I have a nice up hill battle now.

July 8, 2008  11:49 PM ET

Although, they have further to fall, I would have chosen the Packers.
Other than the powerful offenses in Dallas and NO, Tampa solid D should be able to contain the teams on their '08 sched.

July 9, 2008  10:45 AM ET

I really don't trust Cleveland's ability to overtake Pittsburgh. Usually after a season of unexpected succes there is a correction the following year (like the Saints).

July 9, 2008  11:57 PM ET

Vote to the left...better arguments in my opinoin.

July 9, 2008  11:57 PM ET

opinion*

July 10, 2008  12:59 AM ET

Going right,nice td.Oh and another thing:I'm freakin tired of people thinking the Browns will be good!Give it a rest!

July 10, 2008  01:00 AM ET

Whatever the Dark Lord is smoking..........I want some.

July 10, 2008  01:18 AM ET

Going right,nice td.Oh and another thing:I'm freakin tired of people thinking the Browns will be good!Give it a rest!

"Cincy" | 07/10/08, 12:59 AM

You just dont want them to be better than the Bengals!

July 10, 2008  01:19 AM ET

Damn it tracy!Shhhh

July 10, 2008  01:32 AM ET

Damn it tracy!Shhhh

"Cincy" | 07/10/08, 01:19 A

I think your name kind of gives you away, Cincy..

July 10, 2008  10:05 AM ET

Great by both, so it comes down to this.... Morgan retired. Davenport is no longer a Steeler. They cut him, so is that really a good duo. I know who they added, but when it is this close of arguements, have to pick against the mistakes.

July 10, 2008  10:16 AM ET

This is a tough one... I think that Tampa Bay will most certainly regress in the NFC South... I think that Pittsburgh is going to face stiff competition for the AFC North... but the Steelers have more tools to fend off Cleveland than the Buccaneers have to fend off New Orleans... going right in a close debate... good arguments from both, I just think that the Browns as champs were countered better than Saints as champs...

July 10, 2008  11:56 AM ET

NO and Carolina are going to battle it out

 
July 10, 2008  11:57 AM ET

Excellent TD guys

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