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  • July 08, 2008 08:39 PM ET

The Cubs got the better of the Rich Harden trade.

??? (1-2-0) vs Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox (364-160-36)
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Ok as someone who used to live in Chicago and became a big Cubs fan, then moved out to the bay area and became a huge A's fan, I'm completely neutral.

First of all the Cubs got Harden who is finally healthy and likely would have a cy young had he stayed healthy.

They also got Chad Gaudin who was great in the rotation last year for the A's, and was a very solid long reliever this year.

In return the A's got Matt Murton who is not exactly a prospect at the age 26, and joins the A's group of good but not great outfielders with Jack Cust, Ryan Sweeney, Emil Brown, Conlos Gonzalez, Travis Buck, Rajai Davis, and Chris Denorfia.

Eric Patterson who will likely only be a two or three year filler in between Mark Ellis and Jemile Weeks.

Sean Gallagher who I actually do like but nowhere near the same quality as Harden.

And Josh Donaldson who I honestly don't know much about. What I do know though is that the A's have a young catcher who was almost an all-star in Kurt Suzuki.

In conclusion Oakland traded a superstar for a bunch of role players that they don't have much of a role for.


"They also got Chad Gaudin who was great in the rotation last year for the A's"

Let's start with this one. Gaudin was anything BUT great in the rotation last year. That's why he's NOT in the rotation this year.

2007 - Chad Gaudin - GS 34 W 11 L 13 ERA 4.42 WHIP 1.53

If that's your idea of a great year, you're easily impressed.

On to Harden. To call this man injury prone, is too kind. He makes Mark Prior look like an iron man. With the A's still in the race in the A.L. West, they trade away supposedly their best starter who is "finally healthy" as you put it? That should be a HUGE red flag. The guy just made his 11th consecutive start without a trip to the DL for the first time in 5 years. He's been on the DL six times since 2005, including already spending a month there this year with a strained shoulder.

Gallagher was the key to this deal. He's young, cheap, and has tons of upside potential. At only 22 years old this kid has top of the rotation potential for years to come with the A's. Harden, on the other hand is 4 years older, couldn't stay healthy if he was locked in an oxygen tent, and has a very large option for next year.

The A's got the better end of this deal.


Once again I do like Gallagher but Harden should he stay healthy has a much higher potential factor.The A's already have plenty of young pitchers and Gallagher just adds to the mix of up and coming pitchers that are just waiting to get two or three solid years with the A's, then shipped off with more young pitchers to replace them (see Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder, Dan Haren, and now Rich Harden).

With the exception of that the A's got no one that they needed and gave up a second solid pitcher. Gaudin is a guy who is very solid from the bullpen any can give you two to four solid innings when called upon. He fell off at the end of the year but Gaudin's stats were much better at this time of year and was getting some minor all-star consideration.


2005 - strained left oblique - missed 34 games
2006 - back strain - missed 34 games
2006 - sprained right elbow - missed another 129 games
2007 - strained pitching shoulder - missed 151 games
2008 - strained pitching shoulder - missed 31 games (still half a season to go)

You keep saying "if he stays healthy". The real question is how long until he's hurt, again? The man has missed 182 games in the last season and a half alone to a "strained pitching shoulder". Knowing this, you expect he'll NOW stay healthy? In Chicago, of all places? The Cubs organization is where hard throwing pitchers go to have their arms fall off.

Gallager gives the A's another young quality starter who will be under team control for several years. It's how the A's do business. This move fits their organizational plan perfectly. Harden has an $8mil option for next year and is then a free agent. Oakland was not about to fund that option. Not for a guy who has missed 345 games over the last 2 2/12 seasons. They replaced him in the rotation with an excellent, cheap young prospect for years to come.

The Cubs get a guy with more injury problems than Mark Prior and Kerry Wood combined.


Forfeited Turn


Well then. Not much ground left to cover here. Billy Beane is arguably the best/smartest GM in baseball. You mention about "shipping off" pitchers, well, how's that worked out for them?

Tim Hudson - Has been solid for Atlanta, but not the sub-3.00 ERA pitcher he was in Oakland.

Mark Mulder - Broken. The GOT Haren in this deal.

Dan Haren - 3 of the 6 prospects the A's received in this deal have already cracked the majors on a second place team.

Barry Zito - If there has ever been a worse free agent signing than this guy by the Giants, I don't recall it. Meanwhile the A's received a couple of compensatory draft picks.

In short, Beane knows what he's doing.

The Cubs say they have been working on this deal for a month. If that's true, and this is such a good deal for the Cubs, why didn't they pull the trigger on it a month ago? Obviously one or more of the players the A's wanted, the Cubs didn't want to include...until the Sabathia deal by the Brewers forced their hand.

Combine Harden's injury history with Beane's track record along with Hendry's penchant for making rash decisions and we have a deal that favors the Oakland A's.

Comments (23) Add A Comment

July 8, 2008  08:45 PM ET
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Billy Beane usually always makes trades in his favor, I think the A's got the better end of the deal.

Plus, the trade will become a total bust if Harden gets injured again like always.

July 9, 2008  01:20 AM ET
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Right now yes if he stays healthy, but future no by giving up so good players to be up and comers. WHAT ARE MY CARDINALS GOING TO DO NOW!!!!

July 9, 2008  01:29 AM ET
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The more I thought about it, the more i agreed with CCC
--------->

July 9, 2008  01:30 AM ET
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Rich Harden is Mark Prior 2.0. It's only a matter of time before a serious injury sidelines him from good.

July 9, 2008  01:34 AM ET
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Vote right....great argument

July 9, 2008  04:57 AM ET
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Interesting. 5 Votes against, not a single one of them left a comment. Two vote against me no matter what. Two are noobs from nowhere, and the 5th one hasn't been active since April. 3 of the 5 who voted FOR me commented.

July 9, 2008  05:05 AM ET
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Interesting. 5 Votes against, not a single one of them left a comment. Two vote against me no matter what. Two are noobs from nowhere, and the 5th one hasn't been active since April. 3 of the 5 who voted FOR me commented.
Cowboys-Celtics-Chisox | 07/09/08, 04:57 AM

i vote left
better arguments
and cause guy on right is whining about the votes when hes tied

July 9, 2008  05:13 AM ET
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"i vote left
better arguments "

Make that 3 who vote against me no matter what...

July 9, 2008  05:33 AM ET
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CCC better arugment, Vote right

July 9, 2008  05:33 AM ET
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CCC, Favreistheman is at it again

July 9, 2008  07:18 AM ET
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---------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------->

Harden is injury prone and I think its hard to say he would have a CY Young (or 2) if he had remained healthy

July 9, 2008  08:11 AM ET
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My problem isn't with the trade of Harden, my problem is that Oakland didn't really do anything to help themselves. What needs were addressed?

July 9, 2008  08:14 AM ET
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This is really difficult. I mean, if Harden never got hurt, he would arguably be the best pitcher in baseball, hands down. Of course, he's as brittle as they come.

LIFER: The best I can say is that they shed themselves of Harden's contract. Although he's only making $4.5 million or something like that, you know how the A's work. Otherwise, I'm with you on that.

July 9, 2008  08:35 AM ET
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"First of all the Cubs got Harden who is finally healthy and likely would have a cy young had he stayed healthy."

Harden has proven himself utterly unable to stay healthy. I don't even take a chance on him in fantasy drafts anymore- I certainly wouldn't give up prospects for him.

The Cubs let the Sabathia acquisition push their panic button, and rushed into a deal that they should have considered more carefully. You'd think after going through Mark Prior AND Kerry Wood, they'd have more sense regarding injury-prone players.

July 9, 2008  09:05 AM ET
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I think its way too early to tell... ultimately even if he is just healthy this year and the cubs win the pennant then it was a good trade..

July 9, 2008  09:05 AM ET
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Harden is a giant risk with because he is so injury prone. And Porkins is exactly right, they panicked after the Brew Crew got Sabathia. All of a sudden, this race for the division is looking a heck of a lot closer.

July 9, 2008  09:50 AM ET
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The cubs took a calculated risk hear. Really, they're only gonna use him for half of the season, and they needed another arm to bolster their starting rotation. Loosing gallagher hurts long term, but the cubs are hoping to make a world series run this year.

July 9, 2008  01:30 PM ET
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for the year the Cubs got the better deal, just the same as the CC deal. Both CC (next year) and Harden (contract ends in two, but he will find someway to get hurt) will be gone so if the Cubbies and Brewers don't win the Series (Cubbies for sure) then these trades are terrible.

July 9, 2008  02:47 PM ET
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I don't see why everyone is so sure harden is gonna get hurt. When he gets hurt in Chicago I'll concede, until then think about the potential if Harden stays healthy. Chicagio has the best one-two-three punch in the game should Harden stay healthy,

 
July 9, 2008  03:06 PM ET
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Wrong! I am tired of hearing how the Cubs "panicked after the Brewers got CC." The truth of the matter is that Hendry has been working on this deal for about a month. He explicitly stated,, "We've been working on Mr. Harden for a few weeks."He obviously has world-class stuff. He has made nine consecutive starts throwing very, very well.

"We would have gladly had Rich two, three weeks ago. We couldn't [get him]." http://tinyurl.com/59p29g

Yes, Harden is a risk. But he is well worth it. And he has been healthy his last few starts. If he stays healthy, then just look at this lineup: Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, and Gaudin. That is one sick rotation. And I put Gaudin in place of Marquis because even Lou has to see that Marquis sucks. Gaudin is much better, younger, and I think he can take Marquis' place fairly quickly.

Now if we got only Harden for the 4 guys we gave up (I'm still shocked we even got Harden for the guys, let alone Gaudin,) then it would be more of a risk. But even before this deal, we had the statistically best lineup in the NL. So if Harden gets hurt, it's not as if we would take a major blow. I won't say we got the better deal, as that won't be determined for quite some time. But I WILL say that I really love this deal.

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