Throwdowns > Completed

Views
6
Comments
80
  • July 18, 2008 10:16 AM ET

Favre is a top 5 all-time QB

Favrefan is Oden (226-83-14) vs Porkins: Catches bullets (138-13-1)
12
Votes
19
Votes
12
Votes
19
Votes


For Porkins:

In a comments sections you said Favre was not top five all time. While his appeal has slid off in the past few days, he is still clearly a top five QB in the history of the game. I assume Montana, Unitas, Marino, and Elway are clearly the other top four picks, and I think in time we will realize Favre is actually at least third on that list, but for now I will simply say he belongs up there with those four.

Your big argument is that Favre has relatively lower TD%, higher INT%, and a bunch of other averages that don't stack up to some other QBs. However, it is ludicrous to say that the QB who is the all time leader in TDs, yards, attempts, completions, and wins doesn't belong in the top five. He also has a ring and is far and away the leader in consecutive starts. The Packers could count on him being out there every game.

Yes, he made dumb plays. But he also made more brilliant ones and far more efficient ones. He effectively ran the West Coast offense when his team gave him the chance (1990s with Holmgren especially).

Bottom line, Favre absolutely is a top five all-time QB.


Brett Favre is NOT Top 5.

"it is ludicrous to say that the QB who is the all time leader in TDs, yards, attempts, completions, and wins doesn't belong in the top five."

I give Favre a lot of credit for his durability. But it is NO WAY ludicrous to keep these achievements in perspective.

-You FAILED to mention that Favre is also the all-time leader in ATTEMPTS and INTS and is 3rd all-time in FUMBLES.

-Since Favre's rookie year, the league leaders in QB rating have consistently been well over 100. In fact, there is only ONE TIME since 1991 when the league's best QB failed to top that mark.

1. Favre has NEVER topped 100.
2. In fact, in HALF his seasons, he failed to break 90!
3. AND he has FIVE SEASONS with a rating in the 70s!

Simply not Top 5 material.

Favre earned his records because he threw the ball. A lot. He has 400 more attempts than anyone in history. Of course that means lots of yards, completions, and scores.

Look at Favre's other career rankings:

Rating- 19th
INT %- 45th
TD %- 51st
Sack %- 16th
Yds/ game- 7th
Yds/ attempt- 75th

Of these, even his BEST stat is out of the top 5 and most are in a totally different zip code.


I would think that it is impressive that a guy who is only 51st in TD% manages to be all time TD leader. Perhaps Favre's greatest strength is/was (which tense do I use??) his durability. He did not miss a single game from 1992 to 2007. So while other QBs like Trent Green, Duante Culpepper, and Chad Pennington have a have a higher rating, TD %, and lower INT %, I highly doubt anyone in their right mind would rank Favre behind them.

Favre did earn his records from throwing the ball a lot, I did mention he was the all-time leader in attempts. That's because he was durable enough to be around enough to throw the ball a lot. Remember, 253 consectutive starts...I don't think that should be counted against him.

And yes, Favre is the career INT leader. That's because A) he's the epitome of gunslinger, trying (and often succeeding) to do things no one else could do and B) through most of the end of his career his team was awful. It's hard to do well without a line, receivers, or a running game.

I would be interested to see what QBs you would rank ahead of Favre if he isn't a top five all-time QB, so I can see where Favre does rank in your book.


That's it, in a nutshell. He was an ironman, and I'd never say otherwise. He played. And racked up numbers. A lot.

But we're talking the BEST LEADERS in the history of football.

How many seasons was Favre a mediocre QB?

Too many.

Just take the time to go look at his numbers. Compare him to other QBs in the league during the years he played. Because that's what it comes down to.

Was he the best of his era? How does he stack up relative to HIS competition?

I know QB rating is not the ultimate stat. My point about rating was meant to show how Favre did relative to the league's best each season. He was PROLIFIC but not nearly as EFFICIENT.

The top guys are hitting efficiency ratings in the high 90s and 100s, and you're in the 80s. That speaks for itself.

In nearly a CENTURY of football, you really think he's one of the BEST 5 EVER? No.

You want me to rank 5 guys so you can try to pick it apart. Fine.

Favre is in my Top 10, but not Top 5.

I think Montana, Marino, and Unitas are locks for the top 5. Then you have Elway, Graham, and Tarkenton who can all be argued. Then you've got guys like Favre, Young, Kelley, Baugh, Starr, etc.


For every season Favre was mediocre (and nobody would have succeeded on those teams), there was another where he was outstanding. And yes, Favre was the best QB of his era. In the mid to late 1990s there was simply no equal at QB (hence the unprecedented and unmatched three consecutive MVP awards).

When Favre had his down years, some guys had better two year stretches, but nobody during Favre's playing time had a better three year stretch than Favre from 96-98, and no QB in this era had a better stretch than Favre from the start of his career to the end of it.

Favre isn't the most efficient QB in history. No question. But he's among the most effective. Many of those guys with 95-105 ratings were flash in the pan guys, like Warner, Garcia and Pennington, that are seeing their rating fall as they crawl to the end of their careers. Amongst retired players Favre is 4th (FOURTH!!!) on the all-time passer rating list. That's significantly better.


I will say this again: if Marino is clearly a top 5 QB and Favre broke all his records, has virtually the same QB rating, and that Super Bowl ring, why would Favre NOT be a top five all-time QB?


He's not among the most effective!

He needed the yards and the tds to balance out all the risks he took that didn't pan out (INT leader ALL-TIME, 3rd in FUMBLES)

You keep hammering the longevity point, but it's not enough. There were TOO MANY times that Brett was in the middle of the pack (pun intended).

Yes, he had great years, but he had plenty of average years. I cannot overlook that. TOP 5 ALL-TIME cannot be average.


"Amongst retired players Favre is 4th (FOURTH!!!) on the all-time passer rating list."

And when did most of those guys play? Compare APPLES to APPLES!

You want an answer to "Why Marino and not Favre"? You got it.
Marino:

-led the league in yards FIVE times (Brett- 2)
-led the league in completions SIX times (Brett- 2)
-led the league in yds/ game FOUR times (Brett- NEVER)
-had BETTER yds/att
-had BETTER TD:INT ratio


And Marino did all that LEAGUE LEADING stuff FIRST and against competition that was a HELL of a lot better than what Brett faced. Plus, Favre had nearly a FULL SEASON'S worth MORE attempts than Marino.

THAT is why he is there and Favre isn't.

Favre is not one of the 5 best QBs and leaders ever. Period.

Comments (80) Add A Comment

July 18, 2008  10:55 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

This shld be a great TD

If any1 can argue Favre is a yop 5 QB, it is Favre Fan, the original Favre Fan......LOL

July 18, 2008  10:56 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

QB Rating is 1 of the most over rated stats

Jeff Blake has a better QB Rating than some in the HOF, Jeff FREAKING Blake

July 18, 2008  10:57 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Leaning right.

July 18, 2008  10:58 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

dj, it isn't overrated if you compare eras. People way back when were less accurate and threw a ton more INT, so their QB ratings are much lower.

July 18, 2008  10:59 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

QB Rating is 1 of the most over rated stats

Jeff Blake has a better QB Rating than some in the HOF, Jeff FREAKING Blake

djroxalot | 07/18/08, 10:56 AM


DJ, you have to look at more tha JUST rating- the era they played etc etc...it all has to be examined. But it's what he did relative to the competition. If the best of the guys around you are up in the 90s and 100s, and you're in 80s, that says something about you.

July 18, 2008  11:14 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

The difference between Favre and, say, Montana....was the feeling of confidence you had in Montana vs. the unease that Favre gave even his biggest fans. Even at his best, you waited for Favre to throw the INT......even if he turned it around on the next possesion, you can't forgive the bonheaded throws that made him make that amazing comeback.

July 18, 2008  11:16 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Hahahaha Porkins......

Just as soon as your done with this TD, Im gonna challenge you to a TD that Brett is NOT top 5 all time.

July 18, 2008  11:18 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

I usually don't vote til the end, but since everyone else is, I'm jumping in too. Vote right.

July 18, 2008  11:19 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Because no way is he top 5. He doesn't protect the ball. That's pretty much Quarterback Rule #1.

July 18, 2008  11:19 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

I'm not voting until it's done

July 18, 2008  11:20 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Okay, here is one way to look at it: we all consider Marino top five, right? Well, Favre has broken all of Marino's records, has a ring, and their career QB rating is seperated by .7. That's not seven, but point-seven. If Marino is clearly top five and he has better career totals, a Super Bowl ring, and their QB rating is essentially the same, why wouldn't Favre be top five?

July 18, 2008  11:21 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Wow, did I ever word that wrong. Clearly I meant that Favre has better career totals, a ring, and their ratings are basically equal.

July 18, 2008  11:22 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Great QB...not top 5. Top 10, yes.

July 18, 2008  11:25 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

the only GREAT thing about Favre was his durability, aside from that he was wreckless

what is the #1 thing you can do to lose games? who had done it more than anyone in the history of the league? how did favres last 2 playoff runs end? end of story

July 18, 2008  11:28 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

1. Graham
2. Unitas
3. Montana
4.Elway
5. Favre

Marino can go suck a lemon or get a ring. Until then, hes not making my list.

July 18, 2008  11:29 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Frank, Favre is the winningest QB in history. He won exponentially more games for his team with big plays than he lost with bad ones.

July 18, 2008  11:33 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

1. Unitas

2. Montana

3. Graham

4. Elway

5. P.Manning

this argument is OVER

July 18, 2008  11:33 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Hahahaha Porkins......

Just as soon as your done with this TD, Im gonna challenge you to a TD that Brett is NOT top 5 all time.

Goodell: Happy B-Day Maddy | 07/18/08, 11:16 AM


You would...

July 18, 2008  11:34 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

Manning? Already?

 
July 18, 2008  11:34 AM ET
Report Abuse | QUOTE

If Marino is considered top 5 why isnt Favre????

Comment

Remember to keep your posts clean. Profanity will get filtered, and offensive comments will be removed.


Leaderboard

  Fan W L T Win %
1 DetroitFan* BS: Start Stanton! 132 9 7 91.6%
2 Porkins: Catches bullets 138 13 1 91.1%
3 Baun-ded=PUCKHEAD 52 5 1 90.5%
4 The Ram 138 17 4 88.1%
5 Foosball 68 9 2 87.3%
6 Philly-- www.sportsnoise.com 74 11 4 85.4%
7 Hyped78 113 19 5 84.3%
8 Dookie: Here We Go Steelers 117 19 8 84.0%
9 [The] Coach 97 18 5 82.9%
10 BSchwartz07 129 27 6 81.5%

Truth & Rumors

MOST POPULAR

  1. 1
    Plaxico shows no remorse
    Views
    4120
    Comments
    887
  2. 2
    Teixeira good fit for Yankees?
    Views
    11727
    Comments
    639
  3. 3
    Burnett won't be on market long
    Views
    7880
    Comments
    151
  4. 4
    Warner hasn't ruled out retirement
    Views
    4086
    Comments
    58
  5. 5
    Bengals coach on hot seat?
    Views
    4982
    Comments
    50

Weekly Most Active Users

Comments + Blog Posts + Throwdowns

  1. 1
  2. 2
  3. 3
  4. 4
  5. 5

Message Boards

  1. MMA > Fight Club

    Who will be the new 'face of…
    Views
    1118
    Replies
    10

  2. NFL > General NFL

    Ed Hochuli needs to be FIRED!!
    Views
    431
    Replies
    25

  3. NFL > General NFL

    Taking bids for a new team!!!
    Views
    29
    Replies
    2

Blogs

SI.com

Swimsuit

Jeisa ChiminazzoJeisa Chiminazzo
Tracy BurnsTracy Burns

SI Photos

Manny Being MannyManny Being Manny
College Superfans: Week 6College Superfans: Week 6

SI Vault